Tuesday our internet went out because Hurricane Beryl nuked Spectrum’s tower in Houston. That’s on the heels of our AC unit busting a leak in the evaporator coil. We have more than one AC unit, but yeah, half of the house is pretty warm. Gordon kept promising to sleep on the couch due to the temperature and yesterday we did. It was okay. The AC should be fixed today.
At least we have power. Poor Houston. What the hell is CenterPoint doing over there?
We are experimenting with new promotional strategies, so over the next three weeks we will be releasing promotional trailers for Sanctuary. If you follow us on the social networks, the algorithm will likely feed it to you more than once. We apologize for the inconvenience and we will try to vary our content.
As a flip side of the coin, we got complaints that some people couldn’t see the trailer because they didn’t follow us on socials and felt left out. Today I bring you the first two trailers. Also, I made a TikTok account and uploaded it there. It had 0 views yesterday. Heh.
Chris Brinkley very generously agreed to record some sneak peeks for us.
Now that the promo is out of the way, onto reader questions.
As an author, why do you think so many authors avoid discussing religion, even though it is such a dominant force in contemporary and especially in previous civilizations? It seems like a crucial part of world-building that everyone has collectively decided to ignore
Oo, I have a good book recommendation for you.
It is an anthology of essays by renowned fantasy authors and experts, including topics like Historically Accurate Ways to Die and Horse Psychology 101. It has several essays on religion in fantasy. In particular, Prophets, Preachers, and Priests in Fantasy by Jay S. Willis is very interesting.
“Fiction, especially science fiction and fantasy, is filled with various belief systems, and the priests, penitents, and petitioners following said religions form strong foundations for good world-building and typically drive the story. Imagine Star Wars without the Force and the Jedi, Dune without the Bene Gesserit, the Wheel of Time without the Children of Light or the Aes Sedali. All of those religious institutions are important, but what is truly vital in driving them and the stories about the are the characters’ actions and reactions to them.
Prophets, Preachers, and Priests in Fantasy by Jay S. Willis.
As you can see from the above examples, it isn’t fair to say that everybody ignores religion in sci-fi and fantasy. Warhammer Universe runs on religion. So does Gideon the Ninth. The hugely influential Small Gods by Terry Pratchett. NK Jemisin’s Hundred Thousand Kingdoms. Chalion series by Lois McMaster Bujold. In YA, we have Percy Jackson and His Dark Materials. I could keep going. In fact, I am reading a manhwa right now that is all about religion.
Cleric of Decay on Webtoon. Amazing series.
Roman’s novella is all about religion. Then, to pull from the project that I can neither confirm, nor deny:
Next, we went to the Temple of the Dridag. There wasn’t an equivalent English word for that term, but the closest would’ve been final caretaker. It evolved from drid, meaning walking cane in the Old Tongue, and was pronounced as dreedekh, with g being almost silent. The dridags assisted the elderly at the sunset of their lives: they helped them with their physical needs, provided companionship, and held their hands through the final moments. To tell someone, “Time for your dridag,” was a fatal insult, because it meant you were wishing for their death.
The Temple dedicated to the Aspect of the Dridag handled the funeral arrangements and managed the cemeteries. No matter what Aspect a Rellasian worshipped during their lives, once they died, the care for their bodies and souls passed to the clerics of the Dridag. Their temple was beautiful, filled with plants, light, and indoor fountains, with the statue of Aspect of the Dridag carved out of soft white stone. He wore an artfully draped hooded robe with twin corsages of stone flowers blooming on his chest, one on each side. A necklace of wooden and stone beads hung around his neck. He was depicted in midstride, his eyes downcast. His face within the hood was at once serene and mournful.
The contrast between the long lines and drudgery of the Scribes and the verdant serenity of the Dridag’s temple slapped you in the face. One was dedicated to busyness of life, the other to the calmness of death, and there was probably a deep point in there somewhere, but I’d been tired of walking, so I just waited for our turn to be seen and tried not to think of the Butcher.
Back to the question: yes, religion is a fundamental block of fantasy worldbuilding, but writers must pick and choose what we show to the readers. Sometimes a deep dive into religion would distract from the narrative. Everything must play a significant part in the story.
Religion is also a hot potato topic in real life. This year, when I wished everyone Happy Holidays, a commenter on the Facebook left a comment that said roughly, “I would wish you Merry Christmas but it’s clear that you hate Christianity.”
I don’t hate Christianity. I just happen to be well educated in it. It was completely accidental. I was given a scholarship to a high school where Christian education was required, so I studied the Bible as an academic text and toured services of every denomination available in Dillard, Georgia, from moderate Baptists to mountain preachers who screamed at you to be saved at every service, because once was not enough and you would surely go to hell. Heh. One of my daughters is a Catholic, although she might be Russian Orthodox now, and the other is a Methodist. Neither of us discouraged them from finding their faith.
I got this comment because I note the ugly side of religion when people caught up in it do inhuman things like skinning a woman alive with broken temple tiles.
“Revered Hypatia, ornament of learning, stainless star of wise teaching, when I see thee and thy discourse I worship thee, looking on the starry house of the Virgin [Virgo]; for thy business is in heaven.”
Palladas, Greek Anthology (XI.400)
Every religion, no matter how benign, has skeletons in its closet, because faith is power and humans are flawed. Our job, as writers, is to remind our readers how dangerous religion can be. It is meant to offer solace and peace, not to blind and whip up rage.
Not everyone is down for frank discussions of religion. As authors, we know this because we get hate mail, so we try to do our discussing within the narrative and some people avoid it altogether.
With that in mind, we are opening this post to suggestions of fantasy and science fiction books that deal with religious themes.
Thank you for the book recs and background 😊
That nechist at rhe end of the promo!! 🖤🖤🖤
also the sneak peak ❤️
Robert Don Hughes “Pelman the Powershaper” trilogy from the early 1980s. The author was a missionary and pastor for most of his life. Faith and religion play a big part of these books, but it is done with a light touch. I read the trilogy back when it first came out (yeah, I’m old) and liked it enough that the books are still on my shelves.
oh man. no one took you up on it.
Neil Gaiman is who I think of when I plumb the depths of humanity. From the tongue in cheek Good Omens to American God’s diaspora to the Endless of The Sandman, Gaiman’s gift is that he understands that religion is humanity in a mirror.
all three works I have listed are so good that they have been fully, indepentently realized in multiple media formats.
American Gods was the first response that popped in my head too.
I read Good Omens in my early 20s. I am pretty close to their made up reader who bought the book for an airplane ride, has lost a copy and bought another and randomly raves about it. I was thrilled when it went to TV. I love the parable of the good Samaritan, but cannot abide the anti-womanism of Paul rampant in Corinithians and directly adjacent to the famous “love is patient…” lines. So I love the idea of angels just doing the best they can. I found the audiobook of the Sandman and oh, the voice acting. It’s heartbreaking and uplifting and “The Sound of Her Wings” is just so gorgeous. it’s a rough one too though.
and American Gods to me is the literary version of what I imagine a speakeasy must have been like. I haven’t watched the show for Sandman or AG – I have sensory issues and know that both would be too much. husband says Sandman is good though, and I even got him to listen to the audiobooks!
+1
+1 A
+1
Ooh early
Stranger in a Strange Land – Robert Heinlein. A classic
I thought of that too. Definitely a classic. 🙂
I read that at 16 and it bent my brain in ways that changed me forever.
+1000
Yes. Made me THINK.
Me too. I still look for people who understand the work grok – they’re few and far between.
word – the word grok
I was going to post this as well. I red Stranger in a Strange land at 18, after freshman year of college, summer of 1969, as a happy-to-lapse Catholic. Even then I found it very sexist, male fantasy as religious experience. But it addresses the very interesting idea, what would people do if a preacher can perform real, visible, filmable miracles?
Scroll down for answer..
Kill him of course. Also I shared all Ilona Andrews, discovery of witches with offspring, but not this. Did not age well?
Ohhh – that’s an interesting comment. Well, yes, you’re right, it is written solely from the perspective of an American male of the time and so hasn’t aged well and is very sexist – but what stayed with me the most at the time was the concept of a role in society solely dedicated to observing and reporting, with truth and without judgement. I sort of ignored the rest as not particularly relevant to me.
A fantastic book, stayed with me a long time.
+1 I was given my first copy of that when I was 15 and have since worn out 2 more
Yes, bought it when it first came out and still have it. Wore out my first copy.
+1
Freshman year in college: Stranger in a Strange Land, Dune, and Left Hand of Darkness for a four week intensive course taught by a senior student (majoring in philosophy and English) interested in teaching college after grad school, with one of the French profs as faculty advisor. (It was the mid 1970’s – much more academic freedom in that era.) Much discussion of “compare and contrast” the religious basis of each society in those books with each other and our society. For most of us in that class, the first experience of examining what we knew about religion, and open discussion of same. Academic freedom is a mighty thing!
Thank for your insight into religion and fastasy and science fiction.
Food for thought.
Seems BDH is still sleeping.
I watched them yesterday. July 10.
Not sleep just pensive. Going to explore the listings. Glad to meet you fellow bdh’r.
Hehe, the TikTok may have had 0 views yesterday, but then the Horde Sleuthing Division found it and it got almost 500 views in a few hours 😀
Nothing escapes the Horde! Desire, detect, devour!
Um.. is that on a shirt Desire, Detect, Devour?
Hehe, no, I just thought it would be the BDH’s version of Improvise, Adapt, Overcome 😀
Pretty sure what Keera really meant was can we please get that on a T-shirt? Maybe with the BDH image above 🤣
+1 Works for chocolate as well.
Also future word nerds may well cite you as the original source for “rectally derived”, or at least bring you into the debate since that’s what word nerds do.
Maybe 🤣
Yes! The BDH version of vitamin D3.
+1😂🤣😂
😂😂😂😂😂
Don’t underestimate the Horde on a hunt for all things Ilona Andrews. 😎
Dan Simmons Hyperion books spring to mind, as do all of Ursula K Le Guin’s works.
You’ve mentioned the Discworld so I’ll just support that by saying it’s not just Small Gods – it’s all of them!
So many of the series I read when I was young enough that they formed part of my personality are also examples either of exploring it well or of showing life without it – Foundation, the Dark is Rising, Julian May’s Golden Torc and related books!
We obviously have been reading and enjoying a lot of the same things. This month I am re-reading, for probably the 8th time, that Julian May’s series. It has worn well over the years.
Again, read all of these back in the day and they are still points of reference in my life decades later.
R J Blain books
There’s a sleuthing division? Wow! How do I sign up? Is there a training program?
I work remotely and whatever happened in Houston knocked our systems out too. Yesterday we were still trying to work it out with our other site in Florida. The lagg on the system was terrible.
Jaqueline Carey’s Kushiel books used very religious main characters to explain cultures with very different morals and values than most real-world societies. Even though the main religion was completely made up, it helped this child of atheists understand real-world faith a bit better too, more than years of school church services did anyway.
Ohh, I second this! Absolutely recommend Phedre’s Trilogy. The world building is amazing, and the series delves into all types of religions, cultures, and beliefs as it relates to the story and characters.
Came here to say this – incredible trilogy!
+1 to Kushiel’s Legacy. Absolutely stunning series, and completely centered on a vaguely post-Christian fantasy religion.
+1
What they said! Great series, all 10 books spanning centuries!
+1
Paksenarrian Dorthansdotter stories by Elizabeth Moon. Entire Valdemar catalog by Mercedes Lackey, but especially Brightly Burning, the the Tarma and Kethry trilogy, and the two Exile books. And also in the Chalion world by Lois McMaster Bujold, the entire Penric and Desdemona series of short stories. To name a few.
YES! I mentioned ML and almost included Lois.
I agree strongly with the Paksenarian series and Valdemar, both are examples of religion in fantasy and are great stories that I reread often.
Ilona & Gordon, the way you write with religion is inspirational and has had me looking up things I otherwise wouldn’t have been interested in.
I would add PC Hodgell’s Godstalk series. Lots of religious world building. I am one the diehard fans who began with the first book in the mid eighties and is still reading them as they’re published today.
I have found the Penric world with the Quintarians(sp)and Quadreen (sp) versions of the same basic religion very interesting and enjoyable. Watching Penric grow and mature through this series of stories as he becomes stronger and more knowledgeable in his faith has been very well presented. Plus Lois McMaster Bujold is up on the top with House Andrews for awesome world building.
People write religion into books all the time, it just doesn’t always take the same shape or form as what we recognize. I cried many a times during One Fell Sweep, the Draziri who persecuted Hiru with extreme prejudice, and the devastation when they found out their religion is based on a lie.
This takes place in the real world, and unfortunately, a lot more common than we’re willing to acknowledge.
Agree that whole scene was waterworks town here too…
I absolutely adore that book
I believe this to be all too true. You need to think for yourself no matter what religion you believe in. No horror in the name of religion should be allowed no matter what religion you follow.
Master of Crows series by Grace Draven, Shogun by James Clavell, The Chronicles of Narnia by C.S. Lewis, the Iliad and the Odessey by Homer, and possibly more titles than I can think of right now. 😊
Also 👏👏👏👏👏 on the Sanctuary videos. Thank you!
I second Master of Crows. I love that series. I managed to get it from Arcane Society, and I’m so happy!
+1 on Sanctuary videos. Also agree about C.S. Lewis and Homer.
I read the Chronicles of Narnia years ago and it wasn’t until the last paragraph of one of the books that I realised what CS Lewis implied with Aslan. He. Need a re read, re watch off hills/movies actually.
Yes. Chronicles is definitely a treatise on Christianity.
not surprising given Lewis very many writings on faith, he wrote quite a few Christian apologetics.
I’m in a Houston suburb and was fortunate to only be without power for 7 hours. We were down longer after the derecho last month! If I have my info straight, 11 transmission lines went down and before grids come back up after repairs, all the various individual lines may need visual inspection (we saw them come by here before ours came back on). I’m not a CenterPoint fan, but we are already beyond my electrical expertise for me to really comment on them.
Just like I prefer little to no pop culture references in my fiction, I’m particular about the portrayal of religion for a number of reasons, but primarily because one of the things I love most about reading is the ability to be somewhere else feeling something else and so forth. I think that’s also why I favor fantasy. Your storytelling is amazing at stepping away from the here and now while still being here and now. Also, I love Costco, so how could I complain!
Brandon Sanderson’s Strormlight epic fantasy series is amazing as well and the religion is integral.
+1 Absolutely!
I was born and raised in Houston, now I live slightly North of it. We’ve been through so many storms and natrual disasters that with each one we buy something else to help for the next power outage. We lost power around 0400 on Monday and have no idea when we will get it back. There are so many downed trees and powerlines, so I don’t think ours will be repaired soon. We watched our tree next to my bedroom window and were so thankful it fell the way it did, without injuries to humans just property. Cell service and internet are hit or miss. I will say that we are thankful to God for all the blessings we have been given through this hard time. Some people didn’t make it and some have it worse. We have a portable generator and gas is easier to find. This morning I got this special treat, so thank you!
I grew up on the Iliad and the Odyssey and the Norse myths. Shogun had not even crossed my mind, but you are completely right.
Hmmm, it does and it doesn’t fit, but I’ll throw in the Deverry Cycle by Katharine Kerr (I think I spelled the author’s name correctly…?). Basically, the world building is that when in our world the Romans pushed the Old Peoples out of the British Isles, they ended up crossing some mystical border into a fantasy realm. So there’s humans and elves and dwarves and all that stuff.
So there’s a whole magic structure that clashes with an upcoming version of the equivalent to Christianity, and as it plays out over centuries (because magic and reincarnation) you see that balance between magic and religion shift. (In the background though, it really is more about magic and love and fate.)
Should probably reread it again some time, the series, now that I think of it 🤔😉
because i’m just re-reading it – David Weber’s Safehold series. I sometimes wonder…
David Weber’s space opera series on Honor Harrington has quite a bit of religion. The Grayson planet and their fanatical brethren feature heavily in several novels. Grayson ends up (later in the series) being seen favorably after initially being viewed as backwards and reactionary. Interesting shift in perspective.
The majority of David Weber’s series peer into religion, though his Bahzellverse books really delve into faith, particularly finding it.
I am a huge fan of the Chalion books, and the religion created for those books. I particularly love The Curse of Chalion and Paladin of The Soul, but the Penric shorts are good, too. I might love Paladin the most because how many chances do 40-something dowagers get to be the level-headed heroine in fiction?
There is also a series by T. Kingfisher (aka Ursula Vernon), the Saint of Steel, wherein the first book explores the theory of what happens when you are a berserker paladin, full of the love and glory for your god and your god dies? What’s left? (Yes, sort of Hugh-ish.)
I adore the temple of the white rat! And I would cheerfully murder for Bishop Beartongue.
+1
Oh my yes. T. Kingfisher is a reread favorite when real life is getting complicated. Bishop Beartongue is great!
+100
Came to see if anyone had mentioned T. Kingfisher! Certainly the Paladin books, but I feel that much if her writing explores themes that seem to be the underpinning of religion to me.
Yes to the Paladin books by T. Kingfisher! Such an excellent series
+1 re Curse of Chalion and Palladin of the Soul!
Love the temple of the White Rat. Also the paladin in the first book knits socks (soldiers need socks) and one of the other paladins spins on a drop spindle.
Happy holidays equates to hating Christianity? Wow. It’s simply a non-denominational greeting, hopefully not insulting to anyone. But it’s apparent that for some people, even wishing them happiness is an insult. I’m so sorry you have to put up with toxic crap like that.
Heinlein’s Stranger in a Strange Land springs to mind. I enjoyed it as a teenager, but now I wonder just how many people it would enrage if published in today’s unforgiving climate.
It’s not the wishing of happiness, it’s the inclusion of all rather than the elevation or supremacy of their belief system. It comes up a lot for those of us who are not Christian, especially during winter holiday season.
Stranger in a Strange Land is a terrific book, but I agree it would probably get banned today.
I believe the hating of Christianity was based on our body of work rather than a greeting. 🙂 It was just a convenient opportunity to express the sentiment.
T Kingfisher’s Paladin series, and the other books set in the world of the White Rat is turning out to be very interesting, although I’m not all the way through them. In a world of many gods, what happens when your god dies?
Also, as a god, the White Rat is my current favorite across many different fantasy iterations.
Love the Paladin books, and I think they’re well-suited to appeal to the Horde because of the lovely mix of romance, humor, irony, found family, and how good people cope with bad stuff happening to them. For those who haven’t tried them, there are currently 4 with more planned, although T. Kingfisher (aka Ursula Vernon) had a recent bout with breast cancer, so I imagine that’s slowed her down. In order: Paladin’s Grace, Paladin’s Strength, Paladin’s Hope, and Paladin’s Faith.
And yes, the servants of the White Rat are just awesome.
I see T. Kingfisher recommended all the time, but I tried the first Paladin book and found the FMC annoying. I couldn’t get through the first one haha. Am I missing something? lol
I liked the FMC in Paladin’s Grace myself, but if you want to give the world another try, I promise the FMC in Paladin’s Strength (#2) is very different from Grace the perfumer.
Maybe I’ll try them again. It might have been the mood I was in at the time? haha Thanks for the response
BTW, love the sad nechist at the end of the promo. I wanted to cuddle it happier.
It’s Eeyore-inspired :D!
Because Kolovershi are wizard helpers who change their appearance based on their owners’ magic, and this one belongs to Roman, so it’s starting to look like Eeyore! House Andrews’ awesome designer, Sasha Khalid, really ran with the idea when we pitched it!
Ooh, fun! Will have to take yet another look. As to using TikTok, I do have an account so I can look at things the young friends send me heh. But I figure that’s one black hole too many to be sucked into. Instagram already eats too many precious minutes! But I’m rooting for all the publicity to work!
And let’s not forget the classic stories – many of them deal with religion’s impact or side issues: “The Last Question”, Nine Billion Names of God”, “Nightfall” as examples, “A Canticle for Leibowitz”, some of Heinleins stuff about the prophet Nehemia Scudder …
It’s rather sad that in “Modern SF” discussion “religion” is so often associated with the Jedi/Sith in Star Wars or the Bene Gesserit from Dune as examples – there is so much out there… 😉
Oh, and yes – Go, Desdemona! 😉
Maybe in movie circles, because they are very popular franchises. But in (at least my) Tv-series watching/ video-game playing/ and reader circles, I don’t actually hear them brought up all that much. The question that arises most often is how to make science and technology or alien contact coexist with the religious beliefs of a closed system, and which questions each of them address. Star Trek, for example, is so often discussing religious beliefs and spirituality in a futuristic timeline that allows for agnosticism and atheism as well as diversity of belief.
As does Dr Who 🟦
Another great example!
+1 on those sci/fi classics!!!
regarding Heinlein, Revolt in 2100 details the final days of Scudder’s theocracy
also in his projected future, in Methuselah’s Children we see an alien church, which has a hive mind among the acolytes of a vicious god
in side changeling novels Nalini Singh introduces us to the Second Church who’s priest plays a part in trying to heal the separation of humanity into three absolutely separate types
we should probably take into account the fact that when Asimov and Heinlein were writing the stories and books above, probably 60% to 80% of people in western countries were more religiously attached to whichever religion they belonged and that would probably be more like 20% to 30% in today’s more secularized atmosphere; in England by the 1970s regular Sunday attendance to church services was down to 2% in a country with an established religion
as an aside I should mention that I had read all Heinlein’s books up to Stranger in a Strange Land when it came out, and found it very difficult to reintroduce my mind to Heinlein after that because I really hated the approach he took, whether I “grok”ed it or not
A Psalm for the Wild-Built by Becky Chambers – gets into the nitty gritty of being a monk and then being a different kind of monk. Also imagining human-powered RV and tree houses is fun.
Also a top recommendation for books when you need a good cleansing cry!
+1 Came here to make sure the tea monk got a shout out! 🙂
Romantasy: The High Court of Dreamers series by Kit Rocha (only the first book is out, but the 2nd book comes out next month and but 4 are slated at this time.)
Katherine Kurtz Deryni Series: magic and religion based on the Roman Catholic Church.
Definitely the Deryni series.👍🏽👍🏽
Also, Martha Wells’s Wheel of the Infinite, which is a more…Buddhist? fantasy. The descriptions of the temples brought to mind Thailand.
And how about “I’m Really Not the Demon God’s Lackey”? It’s a Western-themed fantasy by a Chinese author that obviously draws inspiration from the Church, but the twists are major.😮
+1 was an early favorite.
Yes! This was one of the first fantasy novels I read… maybe even the first.
Fantastic world building… and probably the reason why a psionics system was added to Dungeons and Dragons… 😉
the really good thing about the Deryni books is how easily religion provides a matrix for the story line
Soon as I read that excerpt above I was like hmm what’s this from did she list the author I want to read this I like it’s word flow…go figure it was from the unnamed unconfirmed project..lol though it looks like it was a picture of actual text I saw some page shading in background which looks very very nice. So detecting skills maybe that’s an ARC or sample copy of bindings… religion was never my strong suit i read it I can appreciate it but I had met bad ppl in church when I was younger and I can find my light on my own with meditation and therapy thank you very much.
Can confirm it’s not sample copy of bindings, it’s Ilona being very skilled at graphics 🙂 . But it is the (ahem) Mystery Project No Comment Cannot Confirm or Deny It’s Happening It Who Shall Not Be Named.
Darn she just has to be good at everything I was hoping that meant it was close to full disclosure time!!
Can neither confirm nor deny imminent approach of reveal day 😀 (I am smashing this covert stuff!)
Squeee!! I love you right now most awesome ModR to preside over our horde!!
+1
I’m a Christian, and I love your books. they take place in a fictonal world where every religion is basically true in some way, so I’ve never felt offended, or discriminated. There are lots of people in the real world who have done evil things, and blamed it on faith. That’s what offends me when people use their faith to justify an evil action.
+1
I agree with both IA’s post (very thoughtful), and this reply. Me too.
Thank you, Ilona and Gordon. as always, well said.
Many examples of religion inspiring (and being considered in) fantasy books … e.g. CS Lewis, Narnia books …
Btw I looked for that book edited by Kobolt … could not find on Amazon.ca
And they will not ship from Amazon.com to Canada.
Correction: can get Kobolt’s book: reading it now. Really enjoying it. Thank you!
This is a super awesome thing about the intellectual community on this blog: we do share wisdom and learn things … we do advance knowledge and spread wings …
Celebration and gratitude! Thank you for cultivating and sharing!
I’m a Christian as well! Love how Ilona and Gordon address religion’s excesses and misuse in their writing.
One of the main plot drivers- and character viewpoints!- in Sanderson’s Elantris is religion and a religious devotee.
A Chorus of Dragons series has an amazing twist on religion, as well.
K.B. Wagers NeoG series has some interesting religious stuff, but it’s fairly unobtrusive.
One of the characters’ religion states that God created us to be the caretakers of Earth and we shouldn’t leave it, so she had to get special dispensation from her pastor to work for the Near Earth Orbital Guard (the Space Coast Guard), but she wasn’t allowed to leave the Sol system.
I would recommend two series for developing various religions’ depth:
1. Katherine Addison’s Goblin Emperor series, especially the 2nd and 3rd books, Witness for the Dead and Grief of Stones.
2. Canadian author Victoria Goddard’s Hands of the Emperor series, especially the 6 books and related short stories, Stargazy Pie, Bee Sting Cake, Whiskey Jack, Black Current Fool, Love in a Mist, Plum Duff and short story Saint of the Bookstore.
+1 for Victoria Goddard’s books, especially the Greenwing and Dart series as you said. At 300-400 pages each I see them more as books than short stories. The religious themes are there and integral from the beginning, but wow they take a sudden sharp turn into the more seriously religious later in the series. I’m surprised I love them so much.
Seconding Katherine Addison’s work! I put it in a comment before reading everyone else’s so adding a +1 here.
so glad to see Victoria Goddard mentioned! Yes Greenwing and Dart weaves in religious themes in a very interesting way…
I love the first book of the Goblin Emperor series (poor Maia) and I enjoyed the rest of them.
I have a love/roll my eyes relationship with the Hands of The Emperor series (the main books) because of the general, ummm, saintliness of Kip and How Many Freaking Times it has to be pointed out how people have wronged him in very similar ways. Her writing is lovely and I enjoy the books, enough to re-read, but there are places I start skipping ahead.
+1 for Goblin Emperor – it’s so gorgeously written.
FYI, there is a new Addison book coming out next year. Tomb of the Dragons continues the Amalo story.
I really like Sharon Shinn, and I think the rest of the BDH would like her too! Her Archangel series has a very interesting exploration of religion – it’s one of the major themes and plot drivers – so I can’t tell you much about what makes it so interesting without giving out spoilers. it’s kind of Judeo-Christian inspired, with real genetically engineered angels (flying humans) who rule the world, and fly into the heavens to pray for good weather and other blessings – many complications ensue.
Shinn’s Elemental Blessings series also has religion as a major part of the setting. The religion is more subdued and entirely beneficent in this series, and doesn’t seem inspired by any real world religion (that I know of). The first book in this series, Troubled Waters, is one of my favourite books of all time.
I also *love* the Five Gods books by Lois McMaster Bujold, and the Narnia books (mentioned here by other commenters many times).
One other suggestion is the Tuyo series by Rachel Neumeier. In this world, the Gods are all heavenly bodies, have different attributes, and preside over different countries. The winter country is the country of the Moon. Across the great river, the summer country is under the Sun, and the Moon only rises some nights, when she is interested in what the people there are doing. The gods take active interest in the world, and breaking oaths has real consequences. The first book in this series (also named Tuyo), is another one of my all time favourites.
The Poppy War Trilogy is a dark war fantasy series set in Not-China that has Song Dynasty aesthetics but centered around 1930s/40s Chinese History. It also deals with clashing religions and the impact of colonialism and imperialism. It’s a very heavy series.
Thank you for all the sterling examples listed above, some of which are on my shelves with the rest now residing on the “to be acquired list”! I’d like to add C.J. Cherryh to the list. Her Faded Sun series presents a faith system broken into clans and then challenged not only by members of other clans but also by colonizing outlanders and human “diplomats”. It’s an older work as I read it first in high school..
Another work by this author is the Foreigner series, there are 22 books in the series which is a lot but it’s a fabulous read about conflicting cultures and belief systems.
Yes! I was just thinking of Cherryh and both of those series in particular while reading this
All of the Cosmere works by Brandon Sanderson have some strong religious elements. From use of religion as propaganda and prophecy to actual conversations with gods (or punching gods – depending on the characters involved ), to what it means to have faith and why; Sanderson never tires of discussing religion as a concept and using it in his storytelling.
Yes, and with the two (so far) Mistborn trilogies spanning centuries, it was REALLY cool to be able to watch a religion form and then spread/be reinterpreted by future generations.
An unusual series, The Butcher of Gadobhra, depends heavily on religion, albeit in a fantastical, and often humorous, way. Nevertheless, it is important to the story progression. It can be found at Royalroad.com (a very large writing site, with, mostly amateur writers). An excellent mix of drama and fun. Highly recommended. (The title is rather misleading – not nearly as violent as it might imply.)
As for Center Point, much as I hate to say something nice about big companies, they’re having major problems. I saw a news report where it said that on ONE STREET they had to replace 250 power poles, and on another 600 trees fell on the power lines. Ouch!
I just read ‚An Inheritance of magic‘ by Benedict Jacka. In it, the male protagonaist flounders and is pretty much alone with everything. Somewhere along the lines he meets a priest, who gives him pointers, but our protagonist has to read a few theological books first. He learns dialectic thinking and Argument and that helps him at the end against the maybe-villain. Book highly recommended.
Mercy Thompson uses her faith against the Vampires.
I got banned from the Facebook group for my theory that the only reason Mercy was a Christian was to get the books accepted in the US bible belt.
I tend to not read books from the category Christian religion trumps all.
Mercy is the only exception to this rule.
I always thought that the sometimes scornful – often irreverent – take that the character Belgarath (himself a first Disciple of a God) had on organized religion in David Edding’s ‘The Belgariad’ series was interesting and not typical for the time. Eddings’ books were very popular when I was a teenager and I re-read them recently.
In a world with seven very different Gods (and UL, the father of said Gods), much of the Belgariad’s world-building and plot motivation pretty much comes down to a divine dispute (and issues of destiny/prophecy). There are also tribes that worship demons. So there is a lot of religion in the series. There is also mention of an ancient tribe that rejects being affiliated with any God and they are promptly cursed with childlessness. There are many examples of divine manipulation of the characters, and, Belgarath himself is motivated to act by a sacrifice that the Gods impose.
For any fellow Horde member not familiar with Eddings’ writing, he also wrote a similar series set in a different world called the Mallorean.
In his later books, Leigh Eddings – David Eddings’ wife – was belated recognised as his co-author.
The Mallorean is a continuation of the series – the first five books comprise The Belgariad and the second five books are the Mallorean. There are also Belgarath the Sorcerer and Polgara the Sorceress for the die hard fans (waves hand) and they all are the reason I’m not a mega Tolkien nerd despite my bona fide SF&F credentials. I read these in my childhood before I even got to The Hobbit and they ruined Tolkien for me.
Donna – thank you! You are completely correct. The Mallorean series continues the Belgariad and there are also the Belgariad prequel books you mentioned too.
My error entirely: rather than the Mallorean series, I actually meant to refer to the Elenium series and Tamuli series: both set in a different world to the Belgariad, but with a number of similarities (important blue stone, quests, strong presence of religion etc).
Today has not been a ‘good at words’ day for me *smiles*.
I desperately wanted my own Sir Sparhawk when I was a teenager. And a Zakath come to think of it, perhaps foreshadowing my penchant for the bad guy.
Now that you mention it, religion is central to the plot in the Elenium and Tamuli. No religion, no story. A bit too violent for my taste, but, as with all books by the Eddings, very well written and thought-provoking.
I agree. Besides Eddings there were one or two more who wrote the tale better than Tolkien. To me reading Tolkien was like reading the Old Testaments.
Glad someone beat me to mentioning David Eddings. Carrie, are you perhaps thinking of his Elenium trilogy (Diamond Throne, Ruby Knight, and Sapphire Rose) when you mention the similar series with a lot of religion set in a different world? The Malloreon is set in the same world as the Belgariad, most of it just takes place on an entirely different continent where many of the Belgariad’s characters travel to for reasons I won’t spoil.
Thank you, Krista (as with Donna A, also) for your gentle correction: I did mean the Elenium and Tamuli Trilogies.
+1
Glad to see David and Leigh Eddings books made the list! Religion very much a central theme.
Many of Heinlein’s works, not only Stranger in a Strange Land. The Lazarus long books and Friday, also. But yes they have dated!
Anne Rice’s vampires struggle with faith, morality and their natures.
God and gods make for some of the most interesting reading.
So glad someone mentioned these books! Definitely religious based and done quite well.
The Belgariad and Malloreon series are amazing. I’ve worn out several copies of them.
Depending the angles you want to look at them you have The Chronicles of Narnia and Lord of the Rings to contemplate for older books. One of my favorite books from back in the 90’s was Her Majesty’s Wizard by Christopher Stasheff. The main character poses some really interesting questions as he proceeds through the book. It was heavily discussed in my college group at the time. I’m not familiar with the sequels though I know there were several.
Glad to see CS Lewis And JRR Tolkien acknowledged. Their works are classics!
Christopher Stasheff also wrote The Warlock In Spite of Himself series which is similar in style to his later Wizard in Rhyme books. Both series have quite a few entries.
Stasheff once wrote that he found many of the LotR/D&D inspired “high fantasies” being published in the 1980s and 90s to be frankly obnoxious because they had highly derivative Western European-style medieval worlds with some sort of magic system added but with any religious or faith beliefs of any kind removed. Not just no organized religions of any kind, but no characters even seeming to have any belief in good vs evil.
He wrote Her Majesty’s Wizard (and after its success, about a half dozen sequels) specifically to have a Western European-style medieval world where the magic system was firmly based in Western European medieval religion – a world where Good and Evil as represented by God and the Devil were very real. In turn, the medieval concepts of angels and saints and good wizards versus demons and satanic witches were equally real and had magical powers accordingly.
I had forgotten Christopher Stasheff! Great call out!
This is beautiful
I really liked the Archangel series by Sharon Shinn- it’s Sci-Fi pretending to be Fantasy, and pretty philosophical which is not everyone’s thing, but I think it’s some of her best work
Great suggestion, Maggie — Sharon Shinn’s world-building and faith systems are endlessly interesting. I’ve especially appreciated the way she refers to music in her Samaria series, and how easy it is to imagine hearing it.
Shinn’s Twelve Houses and Elemental Blessings series are also so rich and multilayered, and her characters’ connections to the natural world are so complex…great for rereading and sharing.
I’m a big fan of Shinn’s Samaria series for the way she portrays the dynamic between religion and science as a society progresses. The characters and writing are so beautifully done, such a great read!
As a scientist myself, I know that “what we know” is all to often found to be either flawed or outright mistaken, but that’s not to say we shouldn’t keep learning and evolving our understanding. Certainly it’s saddening to see religion used as a way to attack those who find different paths…
Terry Goodkind’s “Faith of the Fallen” does a great critique of how a civilization based on religious rule can easily deteriorate to ugliness. As a young 20yr old agnostic living in a very Catholic country, I felt SEEN.
I know his Sword of Truth series have not aged well and has its own problems, but this book was mind blowing for me at the time.
In Jim Butcher and Faith Hunter books, Angels are important to the entire plot. You can’t have angels without religion. If anything the use of religion in science fiction tends to make me consider religion in a more favorable light. I also enjoy the exposure to any religions not just Christianity
Also, both Jane Yellowrock and Nell Ingram (main characters in two Faith Hunter series) struggle with the Christian faith they were introduced to (Jane, in the orphanage) or raised in (Nell and the polygamous cult she escaped from but remains tied to vua her family) and how that holds up in the supernatural worlds they move in.
A classical use of religion in the plot was in the ScFi Foundation Trilogy of Isaac Asimov.
I think it would be more correct to say that poorly conceived or written SF or fantasy works do not address religion or religious/faith beliefs at all — but almost ALL well structured SF or fantasy universes have them built into their foundations even if they are not addressed in an in-your-face manner.
In TV SF series, Battlestar Galactica (both original and reboot) has a very Exodus vibe to it. The new one even got into questions about the Cylons’ faith.
And I remember seeing a very interesting episode of Babylon-5, where each species was having a Culture Day explaining their core beliefs to the others on the space station. Some were very monolithic in their outlooks. When it was humanity’s turn, what Capt. Sheridan eventually did was line up the space station crew for inspection and introduce them all to the diplomats by name, rank, occupation AND religious or faith affiliation. It was clear that just about every religious denomination currently on Earth plus a few new ones had been exported to the stars.
Someone mentioned David Weber’s Safehold series. Religion also plays a big role in his main military SF series – the Honorverse. And of course, his fantasy series involving Bahzell revolves around a central struggle between gods of light and darkness and their champions.
I loved everything my Tamera Pierce, especially the circle of magic books and there are different religious themes throughout her books.
That is so crazy. I actually appreciated your non religious greeting since I am non-religious myself and actually get emotionally bombarded during religious holidays. I just take deep breaths and try to be open minded about people’s personal situations and beliefs.
Tamora Pierce. She could get quite touchy about the spelling of her name, and I never blamed her. I was 37 before people would take my word that my name wasn’t ‘Judith’.
Big fan of hers. Have been since I first ran across her Song of the Lioness quartet in the late 1980s. I went to see her when she came to PDX one time – it was fun.
She hasn’t written a huge amount since she was in a really bad car wreck a fair number of years ago – severe head injury, I heard. But what’s come out is every bit as good as anything she wrote before.
came to the comments for this. Tamora Pierce does really interesting things with religions, especially when you take her works as a whole. She writes books set in two worlds and both have pretty similar polytheistic religions in every region she visits. Except in one world the different gods simply fill out the setting or establish cultural background of the characters and in the other the gods are side characters and play an active part in advancing the plot.
+1
Love this explanation of religion in books. Following to find new book recommendations!
I’m Hindu and anytime I find a hint of similar religious elements (dharma/duty, all living beings have a soul, your actions in this life affect your next, etc.) in books I get excited.
I went straight to Tiktok to search for the trailer. I follow you there now. Bet you have more views now thanks to the Horde. 💕
The Deryni books by Katherine Kurtz.
And that’s a good one for straight weaving of Catholicism into Ana otherwise fantasy world (so to speak).
A Wrinkle in Time by Madeleine L’Engle has classical religious over tones of good vs evil
+1
I found Mercedes Lackey’s books to be highly influential to my young adult raised in a devoutly Catholic house self – “There is no one true way” is a theme through out. Her Diana Tregarde character has a dialog specifically about religion and it was so powerful for me to see it, and understand it. And it formed my path forward to my philosophies today. She has the characters have conversations about church and religion in several series and its really a neat add to the world building.
Additionally, Patricia Keneally Morrison’s Keltia series that was so SO SO fundamentally based on Celtic paganism, also really eye opening and beautiful.
And of course its not literature, but the Battlestar Galactica (remake) series – its the foundation for so much of that series.
SO MANY THINGS. SO SO GOOD.
My mom is an English professor and every summer at her college (in central Alabama) she would teach a course call “The Gospels and Literature” and go through examining all four books from a literary perspective. She often had some of the fundamentalist folks drop the class when they realized what the course was (and was not.) So we had lots of religion discussions in our house.
I find most SF&F are actually very religious and political even when it’s not overtly done. In fact most authors put themselves into their stories one way or another, whether you agree with their beliefs or not, and whether they even mean to. I generally try not to know too much about an author (you’re one of the few exceptions), because it can lead to ethical and moral quandaries.
I enjoy John Ringo and many Baen authors whom I probably would not align with in numerous ways. Same with Orson Scott Card. Based on certain throwaway sentences in other books I’ve read, there are probably many more authors I would not want to have a debate with.
Should I stop reading them all? Hmm. Let’s see. Do I cringe when I hear Wagner? Yes. Do I still appreciate Ride of the Valkyries? Yes. And he was one nasty piece of work still lauded by society today and a veritable musical genius.
So I guess I’ll keep reading whoever I enjoy as long as I’m able to differentiate their views from my own decisions.
Heinlein’s “Stanger in a Strange Land” and “If This Goes On” are also good examples of religion being used move a story.
I so like Walter Miller’s _A Canticle for Liebowitz_.
I actually quite like depictions of religion in your books. One of my favourite aspects of Kate Daniels is that it depicts a lot of different religions and divinity and faith gives people power (quite literally), whether they are Christian, a Russian volhv, Greek pagan, jewish rabbi, or Navajo shaman. I find it quite even-handed because no one religion is more inherently powerful or righteous than the other, and the followers of these religions are all flawed human beings.
These books actually expanded my knowledge about world religions in a positive way.
+1 for positive point. Well articulated.
Jewish is spelled with a capital J.
Rabbi is usually written with a capital R.
You would probably enjoy Kevin Hearne’s Iron Druid series. His protagonist is an Iron Age immortal-if-he-doesn’t-screw-it-up Irish Druid. He worships the Tuatha De Danaan – who are real and flawed – and interacts regularly with all sorts of other people’s gods: Norse, Greek, pagan Slavic, Hindu, Native American and, of course, the big JC himself (several versions as Christians visualize Christ in many different ways and all of them become real through faith)….
Great series up until the final book. Hated that ending, it rather ruined the series for me. 🙁
Absolutely agree! So disappointed
+1
In a totally irreverent style, RJ Blaine Magical Romantic Comedies With a Body count. There are about 20 books or more. Anything is fair game and a lot of fun
OOh, shoulda read your comment first, I suggested the same series!
Indeed. Her “Royal States” series has one volume that deals with Aztec religion in a very different way. (Volume 5 I think.)
I must admit that her take on God/Lucifer/Angels in the MRCWBC series makes me wish that things were much like that in reality. Her origin story of vampires is actually sob-worthy.
+ 1 to all her series
+1 for R.J. Blain’s work! I especially enjoy the interactions between the Devil and Yahweh, so much fun while offering a different perspective on the whole End of Days concept. I’ve learned a lot about various historical and current religious beliefs in an entertaining way.
Katherine Addison’s The Goblin Emperor and the rest of that series-especially Witness for the Dead-are excellent reads that do a great job of weaving reliance into world building.
Another one, supposedly the last is coming out early next year. I’ve pre-ordered it.
In Jim Butcher’s Dresden Files we have Odin, the Valkyries, Judeo-Christian Angels, Holy Swords made with the nails of the Cross, Ancient deities, Titans, big Fae Queens, the Outsiders which a re akin of the Old Horrors of the Tolkien mythology… And faith protects believers when facing Evil. Faith be in his mother’s Pentacle necklace, for Dresden, be the faith of the Catholic Church in the case of Michael, Knight of the Cross, etc. It’s one of the many examples like those mentioned above, of religion in Fantasy/Sci Fi et all. In some cases, is a very important part of the tale. I don’t see how religion is avoided in this field…
This reminds me of Kevin Hearne’s Iron Druid series, which also features multiple pantheons – Celtic, Norse, etc. One of the funniest moments is when Jesus shows up in person, although fundamentalists would likely froth at the mouth. The series sags a bit in the middle, but the moral questions get really interesting again by the end. There is a spinoff series starting with Ink and Sigil that is even better so far IMO.
I sympathize with you on the no AC thing, I too have no AC (not hurricane related, just old unit and it’s STUPID hot here). It will be replaced next week- the company is letting us use a window unit so at least the bedroom is cozy to sleep in. Yay for ceiling fans and all the other fans we have! And at least there is power to run said fans.
On the book rec side- R.J. Blain’s Magical Romantic Comedy (With a Body Count) series!
19 daaaayyyyssss!!!!! I wouldn’t be as whiny if I was in the room with the window unit…
The problem with religious discussion is as always- people being people-y. Sigh.
I really liked Stephen Donaldson’s Chronicles of Thomas Covenant back in the day. I love fantasy that asks, but doesn’t necessarily answer big questions.
Star Trek: Deep Space Nine was an exception to most of the Trek universe’s “hands off religion” approach. In the very first DS9 episode, it’s revealed that the Bajoran gods are actually aliens living outside time (the protagonist gets to meet them!) and the rest of the series focuses in part on the protagonist dealing with the fact that he is now a major religious figure to the Bajorans. There’s also some exploration of how this breakthrough affects Bajor. Imagine a deeply religious society that gets the word one day: “Good news, your gods are real! Bad news, they’re not really gods…”
My favorite Trek Series!
So, so, so much to love about DS9! My favorite of the Treks, too!
I love religion. It fascinates me how and why people believe what they do and how that affects their lives and culture.
Book — Sandman Slim Series by Richard Kadrey. I first heard them (before reading them) and LOVE the narrator MacLeod Andrews. So when I read it I hear it all in his voice. So glad I heard them first
Thank you, Ilona, for thinking of Houston. I live near NASA and Galveston Bay and yeah it’s not been a good time. People are pretty frazzled about the slow restoration of power. I got mine back Monday night but it’s been very spotty with some neighborhoods split in half. Everyone I see is trying to be kind but it’s tough in the heat. My workplace is still closed. Looking forward to Roman and reading about some cold weather!
Oh Oh and I forgot to say the Coldfire trilogy By C.S. Friedman Starting with Black Sun Rising.
+1, this was going to my addition to the list! Black Sun Rising, and the trilogy, are such an interesting take on “What happens if everyone can get what they wish for?” It’s also about the power of faith, the nature of evil, and choices and change. AND it’s fantastically creepy! I’ve read a surprisingly large number of the books (love Bujold and Kingfisher) but I’m spending my rec to amplify C.S. Friedman!
The Queen’s Thief series by Megan Whalen Turner is set in a world that involves various gods and goddesses. It’s a fantastic series and it’s complete at six books.
+1 for this! Megan Whalen Turner’s Queen’s Thief series is one of my absolute favorite fantasy series and it definitely deserves more readers. Set in a world reminiscent of Ancient Greece, the main characters have an intriguing relationship with their various gods and goddesses. Sharing one of my favorite quotes to illustrate:
“If I am the pawn of the gods, it is because they know me so well, not because they make my mind up for me.” -The Queen of Attolia
+1
I like the religious system in Tamora Pierce’s Tortall – especially the idea of the Goddess’ temples and priestesses as those who look after women’s rights and provide shelter and justice for women.
And of course trickster gods are always fun…
The first *modern* thing I haven’t already seen mentioned that I would add is Laurell K. Hamilton’s book A Terrible Fall of Angels. There are multiple religions in there, not just the dominant-and-fallible Christianity.
Also from Hamilton, the first part of the Anita Blake, Vampire Hunter series talks about faith as a weapon against evil just as the Mercy Thompson series does. Cross or lamb, true faith works against true evil. (Someone already mentioned Mercy and the Native religions in that series need a call out, too.)
Try Naomi Novik’s Spinning Silver for a slice of Judaism seen both inside and outside of the culture.
Beyond Bujold’s World of the Five Gods (Chalion/Penric/Hallowed Hunt shamanism) there is also a discussion about gods who have abandoned the world in her Sharing Knife series.
Funny enough I thought about the Anita Blake books because lets face it, she goes on quite the spiritual and moral journey in that series. (I have no problem with how they end up, I’m fine with erotica, mm, etc, but it’s fascinating the progression Anita makes from almost virginal mainstream Catholic heroine who dabbles uneasily with voodoo blood magic to full on Wiccan earth goddess embracing sex magic).
Almost anything Diane Duane writes has religious themes underpinning the plot. Her Young Wizards series, starting with So You Want To Be A Wizard, certainly does. She wrote tie in novels, some for Star Trek TOS including one they used for the movie reboot, plus various standalones and the Book Of Night With Moon duology (cats are wizards!). Most of her stuff outside the tie-ins is a mix of SF and UF.
John Scalzi’s SF novel The Android’s Dream is also based on a religious/political belief system. It’s hilarious.
My favorite book dealing with religion in fantasy would have to be The Witch Doctor by Christopher Stasheff. Saul is transported to a medieval alternate universe by spider bite, where poetry is magic. His knowledge of verse makes him a powerful wizard, marking him as an enemy of the evil queen. His guardian angel is quite real. He has friends such as a knight-monk of Saint Moncaire and Father Ignatius, plus a troll named Gruesome.
Saul earns the title of Witch Doctor, as he cures the ailing bodies of witches while the good Father cures their souls. There is romance, humor, history, bureaucracy as well as religion between the pages of a really great book. This is 3rd in a series but I read it first with no trouble.
Well, now I have another book to get. Putting Fact into Fantasy. I already have Sanctuary on pre-order. Fascinating insights!
I thought all fantasy and science fiction books had religious themes? Immortality…Resurrection…
haven’t finished reading the post or comments yet… but…. lol…. you got me to install TikTok! not something I’d wanted to do before. now to follow you there and finish reading this post.
Not a huge fan of Piers Anthony but thought the Incarnations of Immortality series was an interesting look. Also Waiting for the Galaxtic Bus by Parke Godwin.
The many books/compilations in the Liaden Universe by Sharon Lee & Steve Miller
Korval & their Tree is just a drop in the ocean of the multiple belief systems woven
in amongst this soaring space opera🌳
I don’t want to over comment on this thread, but I thought someone else would have mentioned The Sparrow, by Maria Doria Russell.
It was a big hit several years back, lots of rave reviews and stuff. Even hit the mainstream (you know when all of a sudden it’s not just SF any more, it’s literary because it’s speculative fiction).
But, be warned, it’s heavy going. Lot’s of trigger warnings except they weren’t doing them then! (So maybe quite a few years?)
Good writing but too much religion (I like it subtle) and hardship for me. Also quite a commentary on consequences and human nature was my take. But I’ve not read it in years. (Ok, maybe at least fifteen years ago then, so definitely a few! I’m going to go Google the release date).
That’s a really thought-provoking book. My SIL gave it to me. I didn’t sleep for two days after reading it, something that has never happened with any other book before or since. Others have told me that the sequel is less grueling, but I haven’t had the nerve to pick it up. I highly recommend it to anyone who’s not in the grip of trauma, because the questions it raises are truly worthy ones. It is pretty much the polar opposite of comfort reading though.
+1 Incredibly beautiful and yet so disturbing. I really enjoyed the interplay of religion and science fiction but it does raise a lot of questions that could be hard to deal with.
Loved it, never forgotten, one of the few brilliant books I don’t think I can bear to re-read.
Out of the Silent Planet or the Ransom Trilogy by CS Lewis is a big one I can think of and probably one of the first I ever read. It was required reading at my Christian school in both Grades 8 and 10, along with my secular university’s religious studies courses. It focuses on the use of Science Fiction to explore various Christian beliefs and the society’s promotion of science over faith.
It’s an interesting series to use both secularly and in Christianity.
Agreed! Out of the Silent Planet, Perelandra & That Hideous Strength are interestingly dated but still intense and thought-provoking. They’ve stuck with me for years.
Scott Lynch’s Locke Lamora characters often use the various religions to hide. It’s an integral part of the story, without being what the story is about.
One of the most poignant exploration of spirituality and relationship with belief is Piranesi by Susanna Clark. I’d place it in the realm of the fantasy genre (magical realism?), and also tie it to mythology.
I’m not sure whether the author ever named it as inspiration, but I found echos in it of my favourite short story, The House of Asterion by Jorge Luis Borges https://klasrum.weebly.com/uploads/9/0/9/1/9091667/the_house_of_asterion.pdf
+1 for Piranesi! One of the most lyrical books ever written, imho.
Piranesi is an incredible book.
I can’t believe no one mentioned Empire of the Vampire! Most ballsy opening line I’ve read in a while:
“As me not if God exists, but why he’s such a prick.”
I feel like a lot of fantasy books address religion, but because it differs from Christianity maybe readers don’t recognize it as religion. It’s just part of the world building. I liked how you used Percy Jackson as an example, because we all know of the Greek gods, but I doubt most readers would describe PJ as having religious themes.
I haven’t seen The Stand by Stephen King mentioned. I also adore the Chalion series. Tamora Pierce, the Beka Cooper series was great fun. I can’t remember her gods name at the moment.
I watched the 1994 tv adaptation of that when I was waaaaaaay too young for it, and it scared me for so long!
+1 I read that way too young but was absolutely fascinated by it! Re-reading it as an adult I understood it much better
loved the promo material, so much I’ll definitely buy the book.
no, wait,… too late… i already did so!
i also enjoyed the discussion on religion thank you
thank you for all your words and to co-opt a phrase, msy your Gods walk with you and keep you safe
I have two series starters that involve religious themes integral to the story…
Of Saints and Shadows by Christopher Golden
A Woman Worth Ten Coppers by Morgan Howell
an old horror series that revolved around Norse Pantheon and was very good/bad depending on how you praise horror…
Warrior Witch of Hel by Asa Drake/C. Dean Anderson
those tik toks reads like a facebook post bth, but happy to be following you now
Michael McClung’s the skinwalkers war series (2 books-incomplete) dealts with religion in all the fun ways, crazy too smart for its own good ladys, saints with swords, politickings of various groups.
I’ve always really appreciated how you deal with religion in your books (and I say this as a life long Christian). You talk about multiple religions/belief systems and never seem to either promote nor show hatred/dislike for any particular religion. Everyone gets fair play. You do a wonderful job showing both the good and the bad sides of belief systems and make it all relevant to your books. I don’t worry that I will be proselytized nor that I will be shamed. And I learn about other religions that I have little (or no) knowledge about – like vholvs lol. You are accurate – every religion has skeletons in its closet. Some of them more obvious than others (and yes, Christianity is certainly one of those). I particularly love Doolittle’s exposition on hate. How we always look for the “other” and somehow turn them into the enemy. It is a wonderful passage that I reread frequently. Thank you for sharing your words and thoughts.
^So much this.^
Thank you for giving our work a chance. 🙂
+1
The Demon Accords Series by John Conroe.
Recently found Beware of Chicken series.
Both have a religious conflict in storylines but it is not the main focus. In Beware it is subtle, IMO. The question of good vs evil, how could you be an instrument of god, why aren’t you utilizing your talents provided by god, etc.
Thanks for posting vids here. I will never be a member/subscriber of TikTok nor Instagram. I’d like to state why but that opens a whole can of worms…..🐛
Thank you for sharing the videos since I have no plans of getting on Tiktok. I follow you on FB and also the Fans on FB so hopefully I won’t miss anything. 🙂
Someone already mentioned the Liaden Universe and I would add the Vorkosigan series to that as it also addresses many different belief systems.
I appreciate all the comments as I’m getting more book ideas to check out!
Sharon Shinn
She has excellent world building, all her fantasy worlds/series are different, and they each have a unique religion (or religions or gods/goddess) that is an integral part of the setting and often the plot.
Some of her series are:
Twelve Houses
Elemental Blessings
Uncommon Echoes
Samarria
Yayyyy, someone mentioned Sharon Shinn! I discovered the Twelve Houses series a little over a decade ago and have been slowly reading all of her work. So much fun to be had with her stuff!
I’m only a little surprised nobody has mentioned Carol Berg – religion runs in and through the background (and sometimes the foreground) of all her series that I have read so far, and her take on what people in different worlds will do because of faith (or lack thereof) always fascinates me. My favorites so far (to the point of picking them up to re-read several times each) include the Lighthouse novels, the Collegia Magica series, and her new Chimera series written as Cate Glass.
One of my favorite series (as a teenager in the 1990’s) was Judith Tarr’s The Hound and the Falcon trilogy: shape-shifting elves who occasionally talk about faith AND sex in an alternative medieval timeline? sign me up! later she wrote_Alamut_, which is set during the Crusades, but I remember less of the religion and more of the emotion of that book.
I’m betting Judith Tarr shows up in Putting The Fact In Fantasy. She was a horsewoman who wrote articles on portraying horses authentically in fiction.
Jack Campbell – Lost Fleet Series – believes the ancestors guide us and we all came from the stars and the impact of fanatics. Also, his ‘Pillars of Reality’ touches on religion as part of the world building.
David Weber – Honor Harrington series has religion in its world building – especially the fanatics of other worlds (Masada).
Elizabeth Moons – Serrano Series and Paks series (mentioned any another author).
Il
Anyone who writes about vampires is going to have some Judaeo-Christian influence throughout their books. Crosses and holy water being used to fight them, or even just the broader religious implements in general in some books, are just one example. Faith Hunter takes it to an extreme in her Jane Yellowrock series, but even the vampires in your Innkeeper series or Patricia Briggs’ Mercy Thompson series are examples of using faith-based objects and beliefs to fight the darkness.
In high fantasy, we mostly see made up religions, which I think is one of the problems you didn’t touch on in this post. There’s a lot of people out there who think “if it’s not my religion, then it’s not a religion”, so when they don’t see a cross, star, crescent, etc. in a familiar format in high fantasy they immediately say the book doesn’t have any religion at all.
A high fantasy example of religion creating society was the Black Jewels series by Anne Bishop. Dark fantasy, so be warned, but really good world building around a faith-oriented culture.
The vampires in Kate Daniels are not faith-based or discouraged 🙂 . I think the Anne Rice-style (romantically interesting) vampires are the ones that tend to be more faith coded 🙂
LOL, got that right.
I would argue the vampires in Kate Daniels are from a pre Judaeo-Christian faith. Certainly their handlers appear to worship all the members of Kate’s family like gods. (The actual vampires don’t appear to have the capacity for thought or reasoning.) Definitely an exception to the rule I pointed out in my previous post, but still religion-oriented in my view.
Great recommendations, everyone. Thank you. I must add a few more that I haven’t seen mentioned yet:
1. Shannon Chakraborty, Adventures of Amina al-Sirafi — Islamic religion and a female pirate.
2. Martha Wells, Wheel of the Infinite — one of her older books.
3. Guy Gavriel Kay — any of his “historical, with a quarter turn to the fantastic”, but especially Lions of Al-Rassan with 3 religions.
+100 – I adore Guy Gavriel Kay and cannot recommend his books enough
Vespertine by Margaret Roberson is a coming of age story in a world where souls can become hungry spirits whose powers vary. Scarred in body and spirit by her past, Artemesia is a young nun forced to defend her convent from possessed soldiers with a relic bound to a powerful spirit. It makes her a target for many.
Also Liz Williams Detective Inspector Chin books (Snake Agent, Demon In The City, Precious Dragon, Shadow Pavilion, Iron Khan). The religion/mythology is Chinese-ish, mainly. The books take place in the future city of Singapore 3 on Earth, but also two levels of Chinese Hells, Chinese Heaven, limbo-like states and one books takes place in a sort of Hindu Hell. Lots of gods and monsters and demons involved. And one of the support characters is a crabby being who is sometimes a badger and sometimes just a teapot who grumps around worrying about Mistress.
The Chinese Hell is particularly amusing. There are the Ministry of War, the Ministry of Lust, the Ministry of Epidemics and many others and they all compete against each other and fight at cross-purposes for domination of Chinese Hell AND earth. And Heaven smells of lilacs and is very boring but also has little internecine wars.
I enjoyed Elizabeth Bear’s Lotus Kingdoms trilogy. Different faiths, traditions, cultures. Characters who devote and even sacrifice their lives as members of religious orders; characters who are considered divine (and some supernatural). Events interpreted as omens or divine judgement. Wonderfully blended with the pragmatic: politically astute characters, battles, betrayals, clever schemes, love, addiction, rescues.
Jean Johnson has done some interesting world-building in both fantasy (Sons of Destiny series) and sci-fi (Theirs Not to Reason Why series). The overarching plot in the fantasy series is driven by each independent nation/political unit having a patron deity, so to declare independence/rebel, you need to create/attract/revive a deity. The main character in the sci-fi is, among other things, a priestess, although that’s not her day job. The fantasy series is structured around romances, while they are a lot less prominent in the sci-fi
This is a newer book, but the Locked Tomb series by Tamsyn Muir has SUCH an interesting depiction of religion! It has heavy Christian influences (see the name of the series, lol) but the book religion is based on necromancy, with God as a ten-thousand-year-old being who resurrected a solar system and its people after an apocalyptic event. The two main characters live on a planet that is a cult protecting the Locked Tomb, which contains God’s death and can never be opened. One is a extremely devout nun and the Reverend Daughter of the planet (basically their princess). The other got dropped off in a spaceship as a baby and really, really does not want to be there. I highly recommend this series to every single person in the universe. It is genuinely one of the best book series I’ve ever read.
This made me think of The Pelbar Cycle by Paul Williams – it’s all post apocalyptic and very interesting what different splinters of surviving people turn into religion
This might be a hot take but I would say Laurell K Hamilton Anita Blake series has some very interesting take on good/evil discussion on the religions arena more centraly Cristian but some pagan mainly Voudun and Weccan but we get some budism and other faiths on It from time to time. You have mine those discussions between the old noir detective plots the action be it magical fights or military or swat stile combat the long chapters on relasionship drama or discussion or the many long detailed chapters of sex scenes from couples only sex into threesomes to orgies. If those arent red flag for you might find a very interesting plot on personal faith as we folow the main character development in the at this time almost 30 books long series. Anyone familiar with the Harry Potter Dumbledore quote about being our choices that determine who we are and not our abilities will find that Anita Blake series has a very nice discussion on this involving religious elements It take some time an we get only small pieces of it becouse It isnt the main plot on the series at most its one of the main subplots on It.
Max Gladstone has a series that starts (I think) with Three Parts Dead, and a major premise is that the world has been remade after a major war with the gods, said war occurring because people figured out how to become gods themselves. That may be a terrible summary as it’s been a minute since I read them, but I did enjoy them.
As a number of people have mentioned, I think it’s less that religion isn’t tackled in SF/Fantasy, but more that people don’t see it because it isn’t either their faith system (out and out or a thinly disguised allegory) or a faith system they recognize, so they just see it as fiction, not religion. Honestly, this is an attitude I see a lot among people who are devout, just in day to day living toward others who hold different beliefs.
Seconded. It’s so easy to miss what you’re not looking for. I know someone who’s a huge SF fan, and also a huge bigot. I haven’t figured out yet how to bring to her attention, at least in a tactful fashion, that she’s completely missing the point of about 95% of modern SF, starting with Star Trek TOS.
Seems to me that if you feature in your fantasy a religion that is currently practiced you run the risk of offending significant numbers of readers? I remember the hate Philip Pullman got for His Dark Materials. I think the Narnia books are too preachy myself, but that’s probably because I had too many Lit classes in college and thus found the allegory rather heavy handed—I’d probably have loved them if I found them when I was 12! 😀
What’s funny in retrospect is after devouring all the Redwall books by Brian Jacques as a kid the vast majority of the characters live in a monastery or interact with the monks but there is no mention of their religion or worship services- only great detail about the fantastic food at feasts 🙂
did I miss anyone else mentioning Stephen R Donaldson’s White Gold Weilder series. or my favorite the Incarnations of immortality series by Peirs Anthony. or. anything by Douglas Addams which was required reading in highschool.
ok I reread the comments and found both were mentioned. that is what I get for working late and not getting here before 10 pm Eastern time.
no books to offer but I did watch Roman’s trailer early yesterday, that count is wrong!
I love all the new book recommendations from this – my TBR lists are overflowing!
One series that I have not seen mentioned yet is C.L. Wilson’s The Tairen Soul Series (five long books which starts with Lord of the Fading Land). It’s been years but I have not yet read another book or series that makes me fall in love with the beautiful, poetic MMC culture she weaves so effortlessly into a love story set against clashes between cultures and religions and magic. The world building was so deep and finely drawn and unlike any other series I’ve read.
thank you for the snippet!!! loved it! most fantasy books have some type of religion, at least the old school ones did like anything based in the world of D&D
I didn’t see any mention of the Kencyrath series by P C Hodgel. The first book is two shorter original books combined into The God Stalker Chronicle.
The heroine deals with (perhaps) being an avatar for one of the three faces of her god (creation / preservation / destruction) of her people. At least one other theme is her desire to understand how gods are “made”.
There is a lot going on other than introspection, so feel free to enjoy the swashbuckling, too.
Oooooo, yes! yes!!! The Kencyrath books are splendid!!!! Religion, how people react to/use it, is definately a major part of that world!!
I would also suggest the Dr. Greta Helsing books (three so far) about a young doctor whose patients are … ghouls, witches, vampires (most of them quite nice, actually), mummies …. whose two best friends are a vampire and the long-exiled-to-earth demon who was her father’s best friend …. the also are terrific!!!
Ilona didn’t mention it, but if you like some excellently written books with varied world religion, highly recommend the Saints of Steel by T Kingfisher.
now I’ll see myself out because I’m not sure if recommendations are currently allowed, but the Saints series is So Good.
The post asks for recommendations at the end 🙂
Nechist Productions.
Heh.
Louise Cooper’s Time Master Trilogy (The Initiate, The Outcast, The Master) did a great job of showing why evil must exist in the world. In the series, there are the Lords of Order and the Lords of Chaos, with chaos being seen as evil. Humans worshipped Order and it ruled the land. But the Chaos Lord of life and Death (a too briefly seen wonderful smartass) enacted a plan to balance things out. He explained how without one, the other can’t exist. They balance each other out and keep chaos from spinning out of control and order from stagnating into entropy.
Yeah, because in this book, Order doesn’t equal ‘good’😁 I love this trilogy ❤️
Do you know that there is a sequel of this trilogy?😁
In Eileen Wilks Lupi series the werewolves have a Goddess who is a war with Her Enemy and it drives some of the main action in the books, but it is always background to the action. So, we know who the antagonist is, but not that the antagonist is part of some divine plot, for example.
Some of the cultural things about werewolf life (like a prohibition against marriage) is rooted in their religious beliefs (or at least that is used as a justification for that rule) and it causes a lot of problems when one of the Lupi decide to not only mate but to marry.
Very interesting series and very well-written. I may need to do a re-read!
I’ve been reading the Craftwars books by Max Gladstone and religion and gods are one of the central tenants of the magic system. How much the books lean on religion vs contracts vs belief varies from one to another, but I’ve found it to be fascinating to read.
I’m not on tik tok or Instagram or X or Facebook because I don’t want my life to be totally taken over by social media ( that would leave less time to read) so imagine my delight when A Priest of the Dark Slavic God came up on my utube suggestions. It was intriguing and I hope it attracts new members to the BDH who are united in our enthusiasm for everything House Andrews writes. Counting down the days to my date with Roman and his little friends.
That first video is very cool. Love it. The second one assures me we’ll get an excellent audio version! YEAH!
omg the trailers look and sound amazing!
Sheri Tepper wrote some amazing stories that touched on religion – The Fresco, Raising the Stones and Gibbons Decline and Fall were all really powerful novels. If you haven’t read any of her work, start with The Fresco- aliens land and solve a whole lot of social problems but also need saving themselves when faced with a crisis of faith.
Babylon 5 – created and primarily written by J.Michael Strazynski dealt with religion a lot even though Strazynski himself was an atheist. One of my favorite episodes revolved around the various alien races sharing their religion with the others. Because Earth didn’t have one planet-wide religion, the episode ends with the Earth Commander lining up representatives of dozens of religions and leading the alien ambassadors down the line.
There was an Indian author a few years ago who wrote a series of books telling the story of the Ramayana. Stylistically they were written like a lot of high fantasy books. They were pulled from sale in the West as he was upset they were being marketed as fantasy and not historical fiction.
Or, one of my favorite Zelazny books, Lord of Light, which handles kinda the same subject from a different angle.
His name is Amish. I read his Shiva series.
If you want “religious” readings that were seriously considered back in the day, please look at old mythology — Greek, Roman, Norse, you get the idea. I read Greek and Roman mythology in high school (yes, it was allowed back then) in “sanitized” Latin in my Latin classes (2 years). It was wonderful. It gives you a different perspective on religious systems and beliefs. The Chronicles of Narnia is most definitely religious. Faith Hunter’s books generally reference religion as approached by the characters. Tolkien’s books have religious slants, depending on the character and culture being referenced (hobbit, elves, etc.). Because most civilizations are built on some kind of belief system (religious or not), most sci-fi civilizations are also built on some kind of belief system (religious or not).
M.K. Wren “The Phoenix Legacy” One of the best trilogies I have read, with amazing world building and religion has a huge part in it.
Love the way the top of the staff glows just so on the book cover (towards the end of the promo reel).
The excerpt from the project that can neither be confirmed, nor denied looks exquisite. The promo is groovy, although unnecessary for me as I’ve already pre-ordered.
Post-script: After reading a few above comments, I recalled that Alan Dean Foster’s stories of The Commonwealth, which includes his ‘Flinx’ books, had a Universal Church in them. Religion, per se, didn’t play much part in it, but the fact of the church was important, as the Commonwealth’s military arm was that of the church. Their Bible was (approximately) The Holy Book of Universal Truths, And Other Amusing Anecdotes.
The Last Hour of Gann by R. Lee Smith deserves a mention — it’s intense, long and challenging with parts that are difficult to read…and so very worth the effort. Smith explores a culture where every action and thought is affected by religious faith, and how that culture intersects with a group of human spaceship-wrecked survivors.
Thanks for a great thread of intriguing suggestions!
+1
I actually came to comments to submit Last Hour of Gann. Absolutely positively one of the most intense, thought-provoking, profound books I have ever read. Religion is a huge factor in both the world-building and in the main character (Meoraq)’s character, but what really stands out is the consideration and unbiased approach that the author gives simultaneously to both Meoraq (who is so ultra-religious he could be called a zealot) and to Amber, who is a firm, unapologetic atheist.
Really good book, if a tough one.
Wild, nearly insane and very optimistic guess on your snippet. Someone is waiting for the butcher. Isn’t this person the Lady Ilemina? Or Arland? So we will get a book in the unuverse of the holy anocracy. Perhaps the story how Ilemina and the later undermarshall meet? Please? Pretty please?
Many of David Gemmell’s books included religions as well. I actually think fictionalized religions feature heavily in fantasy novels.
I loved this thoughtful post. I think most humans crave something to believe in and belong to. The universe is so incredible that our desire to make sense of it and a purpose to life is something I think we all share.
On the SF side an interesting book I read many moons ago is Lord of Light by Roger Zelazny. Is an SF interpretation of Buddhism.
And if you are in the mood for a reinterpretation of the Bible read the trilogy Frank Herbert wrote with Bill Ransom: The Jesus Incident, The Lazarus Effect and The Ascension Factor. The titles speak for themselves, don’t they?
I haven’t yet taken the plunge, but my DH reads a lot of L. E. Modesitt (multiple long series). From our discussions, sounds like religion (also politics) is a significant, often defining, component in his work. He finds the books to be valuable food for thought in processing some of the stuff (religious, political, and just human) going on all around us.
If I were to be of a faith that is part of a SF universe, I’d chose that of the Nameless in the Imager series by LE Modesitt, Jr. The messages of the homilies in the books are rather appealing to me.
Elizabeth Moon’s Paksworld and Lois McMaster Bujold’s World of the Five Gods are my go-to recommendations for fantasy works that I find useful inspiration for my own faith journey. They both have characters with unexpected vocations where a call from their god(s) is not an automatic HEA, which I find very comforting! I also think it’s useful to look at religious concepts from a fantasy angle as it helps you to see the ideas without prejudice.
T Kingfisher’s Temple of the White Rat world are good reads too, although the faith aspects don’t resonate quite as strongly for me personally. (Could just be that there are larger story arcs that aren’t resolved yet although the books can stand alone – BDH be warned you’ll have to be p*tient and w*it!)
On a different tack, I haven’t yet seen any mentions of Sylvia Engdahl’s Heritage of the Star, which is SF-but-looks-like-fantasy (without wanting to spoiler too much) and is a good thought-provoking read about religion and science. It’s suitable for younger readers but interesting for older readers too.
And a shout-out to Gaelyn Gordon’s Stonelight trilogy if anyone wants YA urban fantasy set in NZ where the supernatural elements are from Maori traditional stories. It may be hard to find these days, but someone earlier in the comments mentioned that we don’t always recognise symbology from other cultures and this trilogy came to mind.
There’s also JR Ward’s Black Dagger Brotherhood series. They delve into spirituality quite a bit.
Thank you for the snippet from the secret project!
I am surprised no one mentioned Nora Roberts. Her Circle Trilogy (Morrigan’s Cross, Dance of the Gods, and Valley of Silence) have a lot of faith based scenes in it. Her Dragon Heart Legacy series (The Awakening, The Becoming, and The Choice) is another one that not only is a journey of discovery for one of the main characters, but also has a lot of faith scenes in it.
First, let me defend the power company–I speak from experience as we get both ice storms and wind storms (straight line winds and tornados) and get both extreme heat and extreme cold and being without electrity (especially in a country that is being forced to go all electric) can be a health hazard. That said, when the news reports that 3 million people in Houston are without power, they don’t actually mean 3 million people. They mean 3 million customers. A customer may consist of many people–single-family home, aparment complex, business. Add to this that Houston was not the only area to get hit and the numbers ratchet even higher. The fact that Houston is down to just over a million customers within a week is actually rather amazing. When you consider the amount of destruction and the infrastructure damage–poles, lines, towers, etc.–and just trying to get past debrisand flood water in order to get to that infrastructure, that’s quite an amazing feat to cut the number by 2/3 within a week. Also, it takes time to muster aid from outside power companies. My local electric company sent multiple crews to Houston this week. They can’t just hop on a plane. They have to load up supplies–personal like food, drink, sleeping bags and repair like cables, lines, poles, etc. Then they have to drive from their home base to wherever they are assigned to help. From here to there is about a 12 hour drive and the crews will work in shifts around the clock until the power is back on. If y’all see a convoy of big orange trucks, wave and say thanks. And yes, we’ve had crews from as far as Houston come up here when we’ve had storm damage.
Now, to an even touchier subject: religion… George R.R. Martin’s books which “Game of Thrones” and “House of Dragons” are based on are full of religion. Hopping on the way-back machine, Andre Norton’s Witch World series. And a little more contemporary, Patrick Rothruss’s “In the Name of the Wind.”
PS – LOVE the trailers! HehHeh
Ohhhhh! I love the Nechist Productions logo, too cute. And Chris Brinkley’s voice with that music overlay gave me chills! Thank you!
My favorite sci-fi book with religious themes would probably be Left Hand of Darkness by Ursula K Le Guin. It such an amazing book- highly recommend.
and @Mod R- I love, love, love Jorge Luis Borges. My favorites are his essays and poems.
Shadow of a Dead God by Patrick Samphire is wonderful fantasy and his world has an interesting take on religion. I don’t generally like to read “gods” books because sometimes the interfering “gods” pull the hero out of danger on a whim. Not so this book. It’s humorous, fast-paced and truly, the gods are dead. This creates interesting mysteries and magic. I loved the whole series. Religion without taking it personal, but not only does the author explore the dangers of religion as you mention, there’s also the whole, ‘if you don’t belong to our religion you are a left out peon with no hope.’ Because religion is like that. You must be one of us or you are against us. The mysteries to be solved range from murder to conspiracy.
You mentioned Lois McMaster Bujold and Chalion, but it is worth mentioning that world of the five gods has a long and lovely prequel series where she JUST released a new novella Penric and the Bandit. The hero is, among other things, a priest. Martha Wells has a number of works that deal with religion, including one of my favorites. Brandon Sanderson has living and dying gods. The Iron Druid and its follow on series by Kevin Hearne. I am actually having a harder time thinking of fantasy favorites that don’t include a religious element. Magic stories without gods are missing that divine spark, pun intended.
I skimmed the comments and can’t believe that it doesn’t appear anyone mentioned C.S. Lewis. Especially The Horse and His Boy and The Last Battle.
CS Lewis has been mentioned several times in the comments 🙂
Long time fan and reader, recent lurker, and unable to resist this particular topic! My favorites are ones which deal with human religious institutions plus mortal characters directly experiencing their gods (which, of course, Roman! I adore Roman), and sometimes, for fun, toss in some theology.
I’m a huge fan of Bujold’s fantasy (one of the things I most admire is that her work both has religion (as a human instituion, staffed by human beings) and gods experienced directly by her characters (her Five Gods system is one of the most incredibly developed and subversive creation ever). Plus Ordol!
Equally but differently brilliant IMNSHO is Katherine Addison (open pseud for Sarah Monette) Goblin Emperor, The Witness for the Dead, The Grief of Stones which, especially in the second two (the point of view character is a Witness for the Dead) (but no spoilers here) completely centers on religions as an institution, and not only that, but layers in the lon complex histories of conflicts in said institution. Probably more accurate to say religions (although it’s hard to figure out whether the differences are due to past schisms or just multiple competing systems).
Finally my latest total addiction: Victoria Goddard’s Nine World series (warning for a large number of books and interwoven series set in the same storyverse) which combines systems of magic, multiple deities (different religious/deities because literally nine worlds), and characters experiencing a whole range of interactions.
highly HIGHLY recommended: https://www.victoriagoddard.ca/pages/reading-order
A book that came out as more mainstream but was absolutely SF is “The Book of Strange New Things”where Christianity via the Bible gets introduced to a planet full of aliens, who accept the faith for reasons. There’s more to the book than that, but that’s the religious part.
I’m comforted that only your internet suffered from the storm. I’m in a position on the East Coast that gets many brushes with hurricanes yearly…a generator is a purchase that will MORE than pay for itself in the first storm (just by saving the contents of the fridge and freezer), and provide priceless comfort of fans and lights over and over again for years.
I consider it a must-have when you’re in a place that gets big storms, even if they’re infrequent. One single loss of many hundreds of dollars in frozen goods makes you realize that a $300 generator isn’t so expensive after all.
Very interesting and insightful post!!! Also, thanks for the trailers. Gave me goosebumps!
Nechist Productions made my entire day!
The promos are brilliant! Bravo!
Not to be picky because your comments on religion were very reasonable, but you mentioned Lois McMaster Bujold’s Chalion series (which is short) I just want to recommend her newer, longer and very entertaining series re: Penric and Desdemona. I have to wonder what your questioner is reading to think religion is avoided in the genre, the amount of “”religion”” in fiction, fantasy, science fiction and paranormal fiction is astounding. I think the better question would be why there isn’t more world building without any religions or religious connotations.
I love the way that LMB handles religion in the Penric series. It is so believable, like it could be a true religion today. (It makes more sense than some.) Plus Penric is so good even though much around him is chaos. I would be a quintarian. Probably the 5th god, although I don’t like wearing white.
the Deryni series by Katherine Kutrz. Deals a lot with the conflict of magic and the church.
it was pretty influential for me growing up
Also I’d like to recommend Margaret Weis and Tracy Hickman – most known for writing the core texts in Dragon Lance but their independent books are set in worlds with strong religious backstories and conflicts. The Death Gate Cycle (7 books) and Rose of the Prophet (3 books) are both spectacular. In Rose of the Prophet the gods are involved intimately with the lives of their worshippers.
Is there any organized group that doesn’t? “Every religion, no matter how benign, has skeletons in its closet, because faith is power and humans are flawed” All groups of people period, that have even the most minute power, will do heinous things to either protect their power or get more power. It isn’t exclusive to religion.
Exactly. Much as we would like to imagine that religion is exempt from human condition because it addresses higher power, it is not. 🙂 We are still us and power structures within religions function along the same principles they do in everything else.
OMG, how is it that your comment was the first that reminded me of Octavia E. Butler? I recently saw a quote from Steven Barnes on the anthology Octavia’s Brood:
“Octavia once told me that two things worried her about the future of humanity: The tendency to think hierarchically, and the tendency to place ourselves higher on the hierarchy than others.”
In Parable Of The Sower and its sequel, her MC famously envisions Change as God. That book resonated with me more than almost anything I’ve ever read, although not for that particular reason.
+100
Showing my age here; I was in my early teens when I read the Chronicles of the Deryni series and The Legends of Camber of Culdi series by Katherine Kurtz. These were my basis for what I know of the Catholic Church. A wonderful series full of religiously forbidden magic, and a young king.
I immediately thought of 2 series by Piers Anthony.
Incarnations of Immortality deals with personalizing death, time, fate, war, nature, good and evil. To give you an idea about the series, the first book On a Pale Horse has a man about to commit suicide and Death shows up too soon so the man kills him and therefore has to take his place.
The other is a trilogy that would definitely be banned in the here and now. The Miracle Planet – 1979, 1980 God of Tarot, Vision of Tarot and Faith of Tarot. A monk is sent to a planet to discover why the colonists are experiencing religious hallucinations. Definitely not for people who are rigid in their beliefs.
Piers once said he wrote the series during a difficult time in his life and it shows.
I was beginning to think I might be the only old person that had read Tarot. It’s definitely more dramatically religious than the Incarnations. The other series I haven’t seen mentioned is Seanan McGuire’s Incryptid series. The mice are very religious, and while it seems like a humorous aside in some ways, it also drives the series in others.
A book that’s more fantasy romance than straight up sci fi or fantasy, that I particularly enjoy, is called “Bound To The Battle God” by Ruby Dixon.
It’s the first book in her “Aspect & Anchor” series, and I think she does an amazing job handling the different gods. I highly recommend the first book, because Faith is pretty kickass, aware of her own failings, and exactly the type of Anchor Aron the Butcher needs to be a more just god.
It’s bloody (because societies that tend to worship battle gods can be), crude, and vicious. It’s also got some beautiful examples of humanity at its best.
As someone who’s own particular spiritual path runs from Roman Catholic to paganism and beyond, I appreciate her willingness to show the gamut of experiences you can have in religion, especially when it’s not the one you’re most familiar with.
The Kherishdar books by MCA Hogarth have a very interesting religion in them, that seems mundane and obvious at the start. Very Blue and Orange morality. Her Prince’s Game series as well, with some very major plot and character development points pivoting around religion.
The Witches of Wenshar book by Hambly also uses it to great effect, but in a different way (less thinky, more Conan the Barbarian)
Foe ahows, try Killjoys.
I absolutely believe scifi and fantasy should at least *mention* religion, if only in the exclamations people make when frustrated. Some of the most frustrating books I’ve read have had the author using the thing as a platform for bash a thinly veiled reference to this or that fail. Or decry faith at all.
Every culture has a religion. Even the ones that claim not to are putting something at the forefront of their belief system.
*gets off soapbox before an essay appears*
Faith Hunter deals with faith and religion in her urban fantasy series.
Try the warlock in spite of himself by Christopher Stasheff. there is church verses crown theology through the whole story and it’s a clever story. 🙌
good book
I thought this was very well put and appreciate your sharing your thoughts. We’re all taught to value our opinions and to fight for them if necessary, but we can forget we should also continually search for new/additional knowledge and dare to question those opinions ourselves to see if they hold up to the scrutiny and are worth defending.
As an atheist, I found that I really like made up religions in fantasy world building ; because it just “fits” ? The immediate example is A song of Ice and Fire, George RR Martin. They’re plenty, all are useful and (some) characters are very religion-motivated & behave accordingly. I think it works for me, because all elements are fiction to the same degree.
It’s more difficult to adhere to it when it’s contemporary books and my eyes start skipping very fast at this point.
A kind and reasoned response! Well said.
I have always loved A Canticle for Leibowitz (Walter M Miller Jr). It is a post nuclear event – thousands of years after – and civilization is putting itself back together. The religious aspects are sort of like the telephone game. Large pieces of how/why are missing from memory, but have been cobbled back together into a type of Catholicism. There is an order of monks tasked to collect ephemera and information from the before times to store it for when mankind is ready for it. Imagine all the inane things we would leave behind and if those things were then treated as holy relics.
Canticles of Liebowitz rebounded for me in the early 80s, when I read an Environmental Impact Statement about sites for long-term disposal of nuclear power rods in the early. One of the (deemed infeasible) Alternatives was to establish a Nuclear Priesthood around nuclear repository sites, because radioactivity could outlast our current techie civilization and should be a lasting way to keep people out when physical signs, barriers, and records were gone.
On a crazy note: decades later the US still hasn’t figured out what to do with those spent nuclear power rods!
I found myself nodding my head enthusiastically at many of these posts. I’ve read many of the books/series mentioned. I really love Diane Duane’s take on religion in both her YA series “So You Want to be a Wizard” and her more mature reader themed series “Tales of the Five”. I’ve just finished re-reading Elizabeth Hunter’s “Irin Scribe” series as well. What struck me as similar between both series was the sense of importance of religion in the lives of the characters and the the joy and faith that were represented in both series. I do not have a formal religious background, and I’m a heathen married to a devout Catholic (always something to talk about, lol). I respect and treasure the viewpoints expressed in books and on this blog. BDH rules!
Oh, and how could I forget C. Dale Brittain and the “Royal Wizard of Yurt” series? The series follows a young wizard fresh out of wizard school as he starts his first job as a Royal Wizard. Traditional Christian religion is strongly featured and is a source of conflict for the wizard. Wizards in this world are taught to frown upon religion. I think that this series is considered a YA series, but I enjoyed it thoroughly.
Regarding religion, Those who are enjoying their own religion, by all means, enjoy it to its fullest, and please allow me the same respect and freedom to enjoy my life without your interference.
I enjoy the way I.A. handles religion in regard to Roman, the Druids, the Witches, etc. all respectfully, as an observer, not scornfully, because someone might have a different opinion.
I enjoy that Hidden Legacy doesn’t need to clutter up the story with religion.
I am so tired of being preached to by people who won’t do any individual study before spouting someone els’s opinion.
The BDH is such a well and widely read group! I love it when we get into these discussions.
Michael J Sullivan’s has multiple interrelated series: Riyria Revelations, Riyria Chronicles, Legends of the First Empire, The Rise and Fall that are deeply exciting, entertaining spanning 3000 years in his universe.
Religion and magic are central components. He explores how religion begins, evolves, heresies (or are they) develop and affect society. Since we readers are not believers of that religion, it gives us a way to reflect on our world’s religions.
The heros and adventures they are on would not exist without that underpinning of religion.
All are fantastically done on Graphic Audio.
The Penric & Desdemona series by Lois McMaster Bujold as well as The Goblin Emperor and the Chronicles of Osreth by Katherine Addison both have close ties to religion/spirituality (besides being good reads). 😊
Thanks for posting the promos, they’re fantastic! Great voice choice too.
Interesting & insightful post – too bad about the hate mail. Ugh!
I’m so excited about Sanctuary!
love the trailers
Kushiel’s Legacy by Jacqueline Carey series and an amazing self published story called The Last Hour of Gann by R Lee Smith both have religion as a driving force for the main characters.
During the winter holiday season, wishing people “Happy Holidays” is all inclusive. There are more religious holidays during the winter than Christmas. There is Kwanza, Chanukah, and Dwali to name a few. They do not all fall on 25 December and you can not tell by looking at someone what holiday they believe in. If you were to wish people “Merry Christmas or Happy Christmas” you would be leaving people out of your cheerful sentiment. Should I wish everyone “Happy Chanukah” because I am Jewish? I wish people “Happy Holidays” so that I am able to include everyone.
Jack Campbell’s Lost Fleet series, set in a stellar diaspora in the far future, has a dominant religion of ancestor worship that permeates the milieu. It is not just a throwaway set up either. Characters react to it in personalized ways, and having or not having it makes a difference in how the stories develop. That is, it has the feel of a Real™ religion.
K.J. Parker’s A Practical Guide to Conquering the World (sequel to Sixteen Ways to Defend a Walled City and How to Run an Empire and Get Away With It) has the protagonist deliberately setting up a religion from scratch and becoming its prophet.
Orson Scott Card’s Speaker for the Dead sets up a “priesthood” that is non-denominational (very much like the Dridag mentioned above) but deals with the aftermath of death, trying to give closure to the living. What is that if not a religion?
Just about everything Orson Scott Card wrote devolves into religion by the end.
I told myself I wasn’t going to make any more comments, but. . .
No-one’s mentioned Diana Wynne Jones, and even though they’re children’s books, her works are actually better than a huge number of fiction I read these days.
There’s not overt religion in most of them, she was actually atheist I believe, but it’s definitely there in many of her works in the forms of hope and belief and the human response to crisis.
Homeward Bounders in particular had a deep impact on me growing up.
Diana Wynne Jones, Tamora Pierce and Terry Pratchett were my gateway drugs to book addiction!
💯
Brandon Sandersons entire cosmere universe is heavily religious. I find it super fascinating that he manages to create so many different religions.
He also clearly shows the dark side of religions. It can be such a cool world building tool.
The trailers are fantastic! Looking forward to release day!!
Thank you for introducing (another) book recommendation thread. Best new books recommendations are from House Andrew readers!!
I read the Samaria series by Sharon Shinn a few years back. Interesting take on angels and gods.
P.C.Hodgell–Chronicles of the Kencyrath (first book is God Stalk and it takes place in a city called Tai-Tastigion, which is the holy city for all the eastern Gods). In this world belief creates reality and it makes for some interesting interactions between the various beliefs and the manifestations of the Gods that inhabit the
Temple district.
i was raised forcibly christian, and it did NOT take. when you repeatedly punish an curious child for daring to ask curious questions -just because you can’t answer them- you send the wrong message. and you traumatize an innocent child for life.
and then i found fantasy and scifi and here there were entire worlds where i could be belong even though i believed different things! i think that is part of the reason i like science fiction and fantasy so much. there is no shortage of other religions and other gods.
For Ilona’s books, I have to say that I’ve learned so much about religion and mythology in the Kate Daniels series. I know that some of it is made up for creative license, but there is still clear respect for the source material. My family is Hindu and worships Shiva, and I remember being really impressed by Magic Strikes! You broke down his core personality in very relatable/understandable terms to a foreign audience. And it was nice that you didn’t just talk about the Destroyer aspect — the guy loves to dance and be magnanimous when it suits him. 🤣 The rakshasha rationale for hating shapeshifter also made total sense for that world. As did the illusion magic with the Pushpaka Vimana. My point is, you can tell when an author only uses Wikipedia and that annoys me the most. I don’t have an issue with authors exploring my culture for books, but at least make an attempt at doing deeper research. Why should I have respect for your book if you don’t have respect for the research that went into it? But that complaint goes for everything, not just religion.
A few recs for authors that have not been mentioned yet.
1) Meljean Brook/Milla Vane. Meljean’s Guardian series plays with biblical creatures (angels, demons, heaven and hell, etc) almost as mythology but doesn’t preclude the possibility of a higher being. The Guardians themselves have no contact with the lost angels, who have decided not to intervene. It’s not entirely certain whether a monotheistic God exists — some characters believe, and some don’t. I’m not Christian but I loved this series. And Milla has an other world fantasy with the most fantastic mythology. It affects everything the characters do. For example, the moon goddess demands the blood from virgins so you *must* lose your virginity on a full moon. Or else. 😅 It leads to surprisingly interesting conflict! In the second book, without going too much into spoilers, Milla plays into how political regime use religion/mythology to confirm their right to rule, even if the truth says something else entirely. I love the series.
2) Tasha Suri’s The Jasmine Throne plays with empires who have “banned” a certain religion that threaten the political rule. It deals with caste and power and the balance of nature. I don’t want to spoil too much but it’s phenomenal and the final book comes out this year. Epic fantasy at its finest.
Brandon Sanderson has said that he wrote Warbreaker based on the premise of what it would look like when a god didn’t believe in his own religion. The entire plot is built around religion. Super good book!
Classic fantasy series by Katherine Kurtz the Deryni Cycle. Start with Camber of Culdi or the histories of King Kelson Bishop’s Heir. It’s a fantasy version of Medival Wales, Scotland, and other kingdoms. Deryni are the magical humans of the kingdom. Different timelines but the Church and religion are baked into the world-building of both series.
Can’t think how anyone could have thought there are no religious beliefs in sci-fi or fantasy…
I endorse a lot of the books and authors named by any commenters, and have taken notes on which books/authors to explore next.
I would like to add Bridge of birds by Barry Hughart, and The parafaith war by L.E. Modesitt (I know he’s been mentioned, but this book is not part of a series).
I enjoyed the trailers, and I don’t mind seeing some of them several times as they’re excellent quality.
Loved The Bridge Of Birds. I recently discovered that there were subsequent books in the series, but haven’t tracked them down yet.
I have found them in e-book format. I daresay they would be hard to find in paperback as they were published more than 25 years ago… The story of the stone, and Eight skilled gentlemen are the titles and the only sequels as far as I know
Marion Zimmer Bradley’s Darkover books.
Guy Gavriel Kay’s Fionavar Tapestry trilogy (and any of his other books)
Here in my portion of NC it is pouring down rain. At least for today the rain has knocked down the triple digit heat indexes we’ve been under for a while like most of the country. Hope those of you without power get it restored as soon as possible.
Thank you for the snippet. Fantastic as always.
I really like the promos. I am not an audio fan, my attention wanders, but I just maybe able to concentrate with Chris.
I would add Jeffe Kennedy’s 12 Kingdoms series and Donna Grant’s Dark Universe to the list.
Nechist Productions lol!
My suggestion goes back to one of the fathers of sci-fi, Robert Heinlein. If you want some religious thinking and talk, try Job a comedy of justice or any of his really does have a hint of the author’s take on it all. He’s where I started my journey into great authors, you’re my latest. :o)
“Dark Lord of Derkholm” by Diana Wynn Jones. She is one of Neil Gaiman’s favorite authors, and wrote “Howl’s moving castle” Though it is a LOT different than the movie, I liked both.
Very British sense of humor and sometimes quite silly, it’s about a world with magic – wizards, dragons, religions with mystical gods and clerics, etc that has to play host to Tour groups from Earth in the form of Quests.
From review on Amazon: “ Wynne Jones takes this premise and then takes it further–what if that “quest” was a tour and the various wizards, dragons, etc. were rather normal people in their magical ways, but being forced to create these quests every year, despite the economic, environmental and social havoc they wreak on this fantasy world?
Dark Lord of Derkholm is a very, very funny book–providing you’re familiar with the genre and tropes it’s satirizing. While it’s geared for the YA market,… it’s much funnier if you’re old enough to enjoy the older characters–Derk, Querida–see just how well Wynne Jones depicts sulking teenagers, be they human or griffin–and have had enough lit classes to recognize how Wynne Jones plays with various literary conventions–deus ex machina will never be quite the same.”
One of my two absolute favorites of DWJ’s, A Sudden Wild Magic, involves deities and their attendant belief systems, as does her Dalemark Quartet series. Such a fabulous writer and so missed by many.
Lion, Witch, and the Wardrobe. The ending surprised me so much as a kid.
Ooo that is a good one His Perelandra series also deals with religion as does the works of Tolkien
I loved the kushiels dart series by Jacqueline Carey. her world building is beautiful and binding. it’s been years since I’ve read the series and the spin off and I can still hear Phedre nee Delauney say “love as thou wilt.”
I highly recommend John Gwynne The faithful and the fallen series. (completed) The first book is Malice. Eagerly awaiting book #3 of The Bloodsworn saga. The first is Shadow of the Gods.
French author Pierre Bordage, spirituality and religion are often in the center of this book
Space fantasy trilogie “les guerriers du silence”, “terra mater” and “la citadelle d’hyponeros”, publish in France in 1993,1994 and 1995
I can’t find the title in english, but there were translate in english
Trilogie des prophéties “l’évangile du serpent”, “l’ange de l’abîme” and “les chemins de damas” , publish 2001 to 2005, I’m don’t know if there was a translation
Margaret Weiss – Star of the guardians series an old favorite. One Dark Window duology by Rachael Gellig a newer one but different twist more spiritual than religious.
I have read many fantasy series where if demons exist there seems to be a religious order to fight them. One of my favourites is the Grey Gates series by Vanessa Nelson.
I just reread a the first 2 kinsmen series after reading the third. I forgot how much loved them . I hope there will be another story. I have read everything you have on kindle and bought and borrowed many of your books before I had one. Thank you for the many wonderful hours I’ve spent in your worlds!
T Kingfisher’s Saint of Steel series. The Saint of Steel was a god of berserkers (who would never harm children or non-combatants while in a berserk state), and when he died all but 7 of his paladins died. The seven remaining warriors were taken in by another religious order, whose god doesn’t call a fighting force, where they have managed to stabilize. The first book begins several years after the death of the god, and each book follows one of the paladins as they exit the trauma and numbness of losing their faith and connection to god and find new purpose and reason for living.
The order that takes in the paladins has dedicated lawyers, with the religious title of Solicitor Sacrosanct. I will never Not find that phrase entertaining.
The sparrow – Mary Doria Russell
You two are so courageously resolute, thank you for blogging on this subject.
A book and author I didn’t see noted, from many years ago. Not Heinlein old, more like early 2000’s. Lyda Morehouse “Archangel Protocol” is a series of 4 books with some interesting twists on how religion will be handled in the future and how religion will handle people. Remember it being worth the read.
interesting topic. I once had the idea for a short story where scientists were able to create a viewer through time. In the story various people view the time of Christ in Israel. The Orthodox Christians see the story of Jesus as believed in their faith. progressive Christians saw the story differently. Jews saw him as either a rabbinic Jew or an apostate to the temple authorities. Atheists saw no sign of Jesus. The idea being that in a sense that faith or belief shaped alternate realities.
I read a book about Heinlein,Asimov , John Campbell (founder of Astounding stories&credited as the founder of modern science fiction). it dealt a lot with Hubbard’s relationship with Heinlein and especially Campbell and the founding of dyanetics and Scientology. Campbell was involved initially because he desperately wanted to create a purely scientific basis for mental health treatment and psychology. Heinlein was the skeptic.
Asimov in his foundation trilogy in one part of the story has a take on the darker side of religion, how it can been manipulated and used. The foundation after the empire is falling apart and in the periphery is the only planet that still has atomic power ( and their version is better than anything the empire ever had). They create a religion to control its introduction to the other planetary systems, where the priests learn to operate it based on religious teaching ( the priests believe they are doing the work of The Enlightened one). The religion also makes terminus, the home world of the foundation, holy which protects it from attack. With that the religion,like Christianity with colonization,opens up the systems to falling under the foundations sphere of influence. The story also alludes to modern society, where it is trade rather than religion that gives the foundation power, that people in the systems want the things the foundation supplies like appliances and heating and ground cars and such. In one section the foundation wins a war without firing a shot because with trade cut off , appliances and heating and the like fail , and the people revolt.
Nightfall, by Asimov. This is one of my favorite books of all time, and it’s main theme is the clash between science and religion. At it’s heart, it is about meaning and where we find it.
Eileen Wilks world of the Lupi series examines magic and religion/faith as part of the world building. It is very interesting.
Dresdan series Jim Butcher. I really like his handling of religion
I’d like to just comment on the storm outages. I work in the power industry and have more than once been on storm restoration crews. These people are working 16 hour shifts 24/7 in hot, humid weather to bring the power back on. There are still many overhead lines, and burying them is expensive. It is not easy to convince customers and regulators to allow them to raise rates for storm hardening, despite the fact that they did it in Florida and proved that reliability was better even without storms. Low prices are preferred, until the power goes out and then everyone complains. I think we owe all those people working so hard to bring the power back on a HUGE thank you.
I think you did a great job on authors/series which have religion baked in. I think you can’t miss mentioning Orson Scott Card who gets so much controversy, and yet Ender’s Game is a seminal work. My favorite book of his is Pastwatch where he imagines a way to sort of edit history. His fundamental question is, What about Catholocism inspired Columbus’s brutality to the natives. It’s an amazing book if you’re a history nerd like I am.
I have pretty much given up on him at this point, but that book sounds interesting to this former Catholic. I’ve never seen a book from him exploring the religiously inspired brutality of any Mormon individual. Maybe there’s no Jesuit analog in the Mormon tradition.
Actually this is unfair, and I should know better. Pat Buchanan and Pat Conroy attended the same Jesuit high school, as did Ken Cuccinelli and Martin O’Malley in a more recent generation. The Golden Rule is the foundation of almost every spiritual belief system, but family hierarchical beliefs often have more influence than whatever religion the family follows.
“faith is power and humans are flawed”. I must remember that. Thank you House Andrews.
The trailers are fun teases. Way ro use what was probably stock footage to give an impression of Roman. 😀
Mercedes Lackey’s Velgarth novels, the kingdom if Valdemar espouses there is no one true way, and depicts religions that are insular, others embracing, sone that have been corrupted… and some moments where the deity is imminent and present.
P.S. re: Houston power. There was a comment thread on reddit from an L.A. lineman that came to Houston to help. The local power company isn’t paying for their rooms (a standard in situations like this) and is trying to cheapskate out their pay too. The out of town linemen are refusing to do anything until it’s settled. Meanwhile Houstonians suffer.
I loved Dawn of Wonder by Jonathan Renshaw, it is a meaningful book which touches on faith and forgiveness. Although the ending of book 1 was satisfying, I have been waiting book 2 for a long time.
Haven’t seen them mentioned yet so here goes.
Marion Zimmer Bradley and her Avalon series. Delves into British Isle paganism.
Andre Norton and Hands of Lyr, Mark of the Cat,Year of the Rat, and Witch World.
Ursula LeGuin and the Earthsea series.
Andrew Greeley. Yes he wrote mostly mysteries, but he had a few where Angels and other beings had conversations with mortals. Imagine VM handing someone a chocolate chip 🍪 cause that’s what moms do.
Jeremy Robinson often weaves in religion, with The Didymus Contigency as the most direct example. Raymond Feist and Janny Wurts were early favorites.
I want to thank you for the discussion about religion. I’m not eloquent and reading something about religion that speaks to me on a fundamental level is rare. I have devout individuals in my life. Some of them are lovely, some not so much just as with non- devout people. Your words truly spoke to me.
💯
In C.E. Murphy’s Urban Shaman series, Joanne Walker (aka Siobhan Walkingstick) her emerging magic requires her to tap into both her Cherokee and Irish heritage, as she encounters powers and gods from both traditions.
Religion is featured in MCA Hogarth’s Peltedverse series, especially in how the Eldritch world’s worship of the Lord and Lady is interwoven with the world’s feudal system.
W.R. Gingell’s Christian faith is much more subtly embedded in her books – specifically in the redemption arc of Athelas, the murderous, conflicted “twisty old fae” who, as steward of a remorseless fae lord, murdered the parents of Ruth (aka Pet in the prior Between series) and tries to kill her later.
*Spoiler*
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Athelas spends most of the follow-up Behind series trying to earn Ruth’s forgiveness, only to find he simply had to sincerely ask for it.
Magic in Deborah Wilde’s Unlikeable Demon Hunter is presented as part of the Jewish tradition, with a rabbi training and sending out the demon hunters. Of course, the hunters are all male until Nava Katz accidentally becomes one during her brother’s induction ceremony.
Deborah Ann Gilman’s 19th century Western novella features a shomer (roughly, a practitioner of prayer-based protector magic) from an Eastern European shtetl, journeying through the Wild West to a settlement whose shomer has died without a successor. So far, this story is for Patreon subscribers only but will hopefully be published soon.
Anne Bishop’s The Others books have an interesting human religion which seems to help people dealing with the stress of living with, hmm, a more dominant species.
I find Terry Pratchett’s Death (especially in Hogfather) and Diane Duane’s Wizard series to be very influential in my own faith. I was going to mention the Aeslin mice in Seanan McGuire’s books but her take on the afterlife is also profoundly religious.
lots of people have mentioned CS Lewis but I also enjoyed his friend Charles Williams’s books. He has some jarring prejudices and he probably needs a warning label, but his account of the Holy Grail is so well done. Williams died young and has been largely forgotten.
James Blish wrote an amazing book about evolution, Catholicism, and demons, and Frank Herbert updated Dante’s Inferno, but it was quite well done, with Mussolini taking over for Virgil….
Lilith Saint Crowe has at least 4 series with religious aspects, and what is even more notable is how very different her writing style varies. Spring’s Arcana, Jill Kismet, Dante Valentine, and Hostage of Empire (as SC Emmitt) are all excellent.
Sharon Shinn’s Angel books are another take on religion that I found fascinating, especially as a not-religious person.
I scrolled all the way through to make sure but no one mentioned the malazan book of the fallen series by Steven Erickson…. my other favorite author. I’ve been wondering if there is any crossover between the BDH and the malazan fans…. of course it’s not urban fantasy but the the most epic of epic high fantasy. the world building is done on a massive scale. unlike in the Kate daniels series he made everything up from scratch but i love the similarity of the idea that the faith of the believers are powering the gods and their magic. they are at the mercy of the people who pray to them in a very literal way… that’s such a neat idea. it’s in other series as well of course… In my experience more fantasy and sci-fi has religion than doesn’t. especially series with real fleshed out immersive world building. it seems to be critical to that.
when I was a kid my favorites were Anne McCaffery, Mercedes lackey and Madeline l’engle. l’engle has lovely strong Christian undertones that resonate in a non preachy love and good over hate and evil sort of way. Mercedes lackey is fun and more made up. Anne McCaffery probably in the more secular version of Sci fi but she still had strong themes of love and goodness and be a good steward of nature…. I can think of so many more…. old school ones like Lloyd Alexander and Susan Cooper.
I am leaving for the beach tomorrow and might start the paladin series after reading this thread. good choice?
Thank you for opening this discussion on a topic that’s difficult to write about and sometimes fraught with emotions. That being said, I enjoy the Dresden Files portrayals of the power of belief systems and wish I could meet a real life Michael Carpenter. I wouldn’t mind hanging out with Mercy Thompson either. Patricia Briggs has done a great job of creating a main character who is a balance of belief systems that are often portrayed as conflicting, but needn’t be.
I would echo those who mentioned the Malazan books by Steven Erikson. They deal heavily with gods and faith. The latest one features a god who believes that faith in anything beyond yourself is a weakness – despite his followers having faith in him.
They’re quite dark, but I would also recommend the Prince of Nothing trilogy by R Scott Bakker. One of the plotlines involves a Messiah-figure who may or not be a psychopath.
firebird trilogy.
I read it 10+ years ago, so don’t expect any quotes. I think the 3rd book is where it went more religious. not exploring religion, but more of drawing parallels/using religion to continue the plot.
Oh, I am so ready!
Religion is a primary cultural driver, but even the most devout people I know don’t talk about it 24/7. There is plenty of religion in the KD series, which is to be expected as people cope with the huge changes (I love the idea that everyone rushes to the goddess of midwifery as they need her.) I also find it ironic that Kate calls on what appears to be a Christian god in times of great stress, yet reminds the rabbis that Erra’s magic far predates anything they have to offer. We all need comfort sometimes.
What bugs me is when the “normal” religious views exist alongside world systems that would clearly have a strong impact on them – the everyday existence of massively superpowered angels, for instance. I’m an atheist, so I’m more curious as to how those beliefs arise and evolve than the beliefs themselves, and sometimes, I just have to suspend disbelief in more ways than one.
A lot of fantasy features clerics and paladins who are aligned with deity.
Melissa McShane does a really interesting dive into religion in her Dragons of Mother Stone series where the beliefs of the dragons and the beliefs of the humans run right into each other. War of the Lich from Matt Summers is Knights of a Death god versus a Lich that brings people back from the dead. Game of Thrones has a strong through line about religion. It’s such a strong part of life and society that I can think of more sff that includes some nod to religion than those who don’t. Even television shows like Battlestar Glactica and Firefly have central religious characters and interaction with the plotlines.
My first thought was T Kingfisher’s Temple of the Rat God from the Paladin series and other novelsset in the same world. What could be better than a priesthood of lawyer-fixers dedicated to righting wrongs for the supplicant victims of injustice?
My second thought was Bujold’s world of the Five Gods as portrayed in her Penric and Desdemona series. This lengthy series of mostly novellas seems to be Bujold’s passion project and consists of the adventures of accidental sorcerer Penric and the long-lived “demon” Desdemona with whom he enjoys a mutually possessed relationship. The P&D stories share the Chalion world but are set in an earlier time, I believe.
Both these series would qualify as cozy fantasy and feature religions that I would embrace in a hot minute.
Oh yeah, and every Pratchett novel featuring Death totally describes a religious belief system, as do many of his other works. Small Gods is just the tip of the iceberg.
I just did a walmart run for more watermellon and i can’t tell you how absolutely thrilled i was to see Burn For Me and White Hot on the shelf Wow
it was like i struck it rich…
personally i think all your books should be more publicly available for us
really non tech humans who don’t do online stuff very well
going to go sit in front of the fan and enjoy my watermellon and new treasures
older copies are pretty ragged
big hugs
sorry but i couldn’t find where else to put this
DK
Not sure you can talk about religion in fiction without mentioning Terry Pratchett … lots of themes about belief becoming real, i.e., believe in a god/goddess of something and if belief is strong enough it creates that being (I’ve taken up a belief in The Little God of Traffic Lights myself, but there also has to be a God of Parking – just ask and yea shall receive!)
I also love Terry Pratchett’s “Hatful of Sky” series about strong women working around organised religion/patriachal societies. Plenty of other really old-school SF writers also play with religion/belief systems as well as ‘what is humanity’ (Philip K Dick, Gordon R Dickson, James Blish, Mercedes Lackey, etc.). And if you want to go venturing into “challenge the patriachy” (because what else is organised religion if not a patriachy!) try Lauretta Hignett who has some very thought-provoking and challenging info woven into her stories. The joys of reading!
DC comics is a good example of everything you shouldn’t do. When it comes to characters and religion. Don’t get me wrong the stories are great but… with the multitude of writers and the decades of comics created.
The need to make certain characters very powerful. Too creating new characters that mess up… Everything.
The best example of this is actually Titans Raven. The original series had aspects of Christianity mythology as a base line for Raven & Trigon. With the Azarathians seeming to be a bit Buddhist in style. This wasn’t such a bad thing. Great concept and great story writing, but then we got John Constantine and his appearances in the Swamp Thing series and when Constantine came along so did the Christian faith along with him. Again this isn’t a bad thing. Great concept and storyline.
The problem is that now we have this entire confusion about what Trigon is and What Raven is. They call her a witch or a demon or whatever the 🤬 she is because they can’t make up their goddamn minds. So to make it easier they just try to slot her existence into the Hell dynamic. Which doesn’t work because of Constantine setting up the religion in the Universe.
So now you end up with 2 characters that are so powerful that they destroy Universes with ease but can also be taken out by characters like Kiteman with ease…
Don’t do this. Be consistent. You’ll have more readers that way.
This is NOT a fantasy for everyone, but Jaqueline Carey’s series that begins with Kushiel’s Dart is, IMO, outside of these esteemed authors, some of the best written out there. In its entirety, there are 9 books, 3 for each main character’s story line.
The entire premise is a trigger warning for anyone sensitive to topics of a sexual nature.
But the world and story lines are all deeply dependent on the idea of faith and how the spiritual world interacts with our world.
I know I’m late to the party, but WOW, the Roman video is fantastic! When you start getting offers for movie deals, please just don’t let the movie be too gory for some of us gentler readers.
Roger Zelazny’s ‘Lord of Light’, a sci-fi bringing-to-life of the Hindu pantheon, was an early favorite of mine. I also loved his short, ‘The Agnostic’s Prayer’, in which he writes a prayer devoid of any belief, just as an exercise in hilarity. “Insofar as I may be heard by anything, which may or may not care what I say…” The man was brilliant.
The Sparrow by Mary Doria Russell
Gordon R. Dickson’s Dorsai books are among my favorites. They look at religion and values as humanity expands out into the universe.
Anne Bishop’s Ephemera series offers a really unique view on how religious values shape the world around us – figuratively and literally.
Thank you for the trailers. I wasn’t able to watch it on Instagram because I don’t have an account. Or maybe I did at one point, and have forgotten the password. Whatever. Both the trailer and the reader samples are excellent! I love the reader’s voice — so deep and passionate! Looking forward to the book.
Duuude! The promo rocks! Just enough suggested but nothing that cramps/conflicts with what my imagination has come up with. Great balance! Also, i had to giggle-squee at the Nechist Productions & logo. Adorbs! All hail the AuthorLords!!!
What comes to mind for me is The Foundation series by Isaac Asimov, in which the storyline actually made a religion of the ability to look forward to social, economic, and human trends, and make fairly accurate predictions of how the civilization in the story was going to progress or regress over hundreds to thousands of years. Very well written, and showed the benefits and dangers of making religious doctrine.
Another example for me is a series of books by Charles DeLint, featuring how the fae and previous/elder gods and supernatural beings co-exist in current human civilization. You can see the various beliefs and gods woven throughout most of the stories.
Finally, I think Mercedes Lackey’s Valdemar series would show the shamanistic as well as the more established religions of the various societies and civilizations in her books: many have a pantheon of gods, or one god or goddess, while Valdemar itself is a melting pot of belief systems, with the only law “There is no one true way”.
I would say my love of books, and through them my exposure to so many different ideas of society, love, religion, and life, helped shape a person who tries very hard to uphold the ideal that what you feel is your faith or belief is personal. In my belief, there is no need to convert others to validate it. Sometimes I even succeed a bit, but hey, I’m also a flawed human who likes to talk. A Lot.
I feel 100% sure that Rogan has a Generac. I just got my power back Monday night.
Sword of Truth series by Terry Goodkind. I enjoyed reading this series. It’s been a while but I remember this series had religion in it.