We’ve received several questions regarding translations and whether or not we feel they accurately present our work.
I don’t know. We’ve been translated to… 18? I think it’s more now – countries and obviously we do not speak the languages of all 18 countries. We are not the best judges of the quality of translation. Sometimes we have contact with the publisher and that helps with the trust. For example, I have complete confidence in our French publisher, because we’ve met Cecile in person and everything about how Mxm Bookmark handles KD indicates that they really care about our work.
But also, our books are very American. First, there are English puns.
Bale sank his hoe into the dirt. It must’ve gotten stuck, because he wrenched at it. The hoe came loose, snapping up, and flung a chunk of dirt into the air. Bale ducked.
“Has your man even held a hoe before?” Rook asked.
Stoyan grimaced. “Not that kind.”
Ilona Andrews. Iron and Magic (Kindle Locations 4239-4241).
How do you translate this joke? I have no idea. You’d probably just lose it.
Then there are references to US culture. This is especially evident in Innkeeper.
“I just had a perfectly lovely conversation with the woman who lives down the street. Her name is Emily, I believe.”
“Mrs. Ward?”
Caldenia waved her fingers.
“Yes, something or other. Apparently she grows tomatoes in her backyard.”
“Did you go off the inn grounds?”
“Of course not, dear, I’m not an imbecile. We spoke over the hedge. I would like to grow tomatoes.”
Whatever kept her occupied. “Very well. I’ll purchase some plants and gardening tools.”
“Also a hat,” Caldenia said. “One of those hideous straw affairs with little flowers on them.”
“Of course.”
Andrews, Ilona. Clean Sweep (Innkeeper Chronicles Book 1) (pp. 84-85). NYLA. Kindle Edition.
Also.
“I’m going to grow green tomatoes, and then we’ll fry them in butter.”
“Your Grace, you’ve never tried fried green tomatoes.”
“Life is about new experiences.” Caldenia gave me a toothy smile.
“I’d eat it,” Sean said.
I stared at him.
He shrugged. “They’re good.”
“You blackmailed me. You are not invited for these theoretical fried tomatoes.”
“Nonsense,” Caldenia said. “They’re my theoretical tomatoes. You are invited.”
I sighed. That was all I could do.
Caldenia headed up the stairs and stopped.
“By the way. Back in my younger days, a man broke into my estate and stole the Star of Inndar. It was a beautiful jewel, light blue and excellent for storing light-recorded data. I was keeping my financial records on it. I’d thought the man was perhaps a revolutionary come to heroically overthrow my rule, but sadly he was just an ordinary thief motivated by money. He was a karian, and he’d hidden dozens of pouches in his flesh. Before he was captured, he’d hidden the Star somewhere in his body. I required the jewel that evening to complete a certain financial agreement, and I didn’t have time to dig through him and risk damaging the Star in the process.”
“So what did you do?” Sean said.
Never ask that question.
“I boiled him, my dear. It is still the only sure way to separate hard bits from all that flesh…”
Andrews, Ilona. Clean Sweep (Innkeeper Chronicles Book 1) (pp. 85-86). NYLA. Kindle Edition.
Would someone in Taiwan know what Piggly Wiggly is? Probably not. They probably wouldn’t catch the reference to Fried Green Tomatoes, but they could still enjoy the story.
As an side, Gordon and I watched a true crime documentary about a murder that happened in a small town in Alabama. The woman involved is being recorded during a police interview.
“And then what happened?”
“I went to the Pig.”
“And how long were you there?”
Me: What the hell is the Pig?
Gordon: I don’t know.
It’s Piggly Wiggly. I have never heard this in my entire life and Piggly Wiggly was the first US grocery store I had ever set foot in. It’s clearly a vernacular difference and this is just a neighboring state let alone another country.
I guess the moral of this story is, as an author, sometimes you have to trust and let go.
I went to the Pig. I’m off to the Pig. Got it at the Pig. It’s me, it’s my new reason for everything.
Translations can catch you both ways. There’s a series I read set in post apocalyptic Montreal, and the villain lairs in “Perrot Island”, only there is no Perrot island, it’s Ile Perrot in english and Île Perrot in french, the only difference being the accent on the i. Neither of which should be confused with the town of l’Île-Perrot (hyphen and accent required in both languages).
It jars me out of story every single time.
That should be an unbreakable rule in translating: If it’s a proper noun, always use the actual proper noun. Even if using Henry instead of Henri, use the actual proper noun.
“Perrot Island” makes me think someone ran the text through a translation program and didn’t proofread very well.
I’m originally from Pennsylvania but moved to Texas at a young ago, and I’ve always worked for multinationals and I’m a bit of a magpie so I’m constantly picking up saying and idioms from other parts of the country and world. It kind of leads to a jumble when you speak with me. I eat breakfast, lunch and supper, a soft drink is always a coke no matter what it actually is, I have a sofa in my living room, I’m always fixin ta do something, if I’m good with something, it’s ‘no worries’, if you ask me to do something it’s ‘sure thing or will do’ and people are ‘folks’. To add more confusion to the mix, my parents were quite a bit older when they had me so I also use generational sayings. If my feet hurt, ‘my dogs are barking’, if someone gets something right that wasn’t expect ‘even a blind hog finds an acorn every once and a while’ and if I haven’t seen you in a while it’s been a ‘coon’s age’ . I’ve been told if it wasn’t for my Texas accent most folks wouldn’t have a clue where I’m from. All of that helps when I’m reading though because I’ve been exposed to so many cultures.
My kind of accent and my favorite type of conversationist!
I love words that have a precise meaning (and it bugs me people use them incorrectly. Decimate* anyone?) and I love to use them.
Old idioms and insults are so much fun.
Alas, my words are leaving me. I am groping for the word I want more and more often these days. I guess the memory finally filled up and I need a de-frag.
Ah well, as annoying as old age is, it still beats the heck out of the alternative…
*Decimate: to kill 10% of something. It was a Roman legion’s punishment. Apparently, the soldiers were lined up and every 10th man was executed, often by his non-com or the other soldiers.
It does not actually mean “devastate”, though it’s been used that way until I’m sure it is a secondary definition now.
Have you heard Piggly Wiggly’s advertising jingle? “Piggly Wiggly…. Shop the Pig!” 🙂
https://youtu.be/_CSZjhMzP9I
The phrase that came out of nowhere for me is “ass over tea kettle”. I don’t remember which book I read it in first, but I know I have now read it in at least 4 different Authors works.
Ten years ago, it was Schrodinger’s bloody cat, four different books from sci-fi, fantasy, mystery, and erotica…
I find colloquial phrases, idioms, and regionalities fascinating. But some things in publishing are viral…
Not just publishing. TV, too. There was a trend a couple years ago where I started counting how many shows had a bad guy run into the street in front of a bus (no cars parked on the street and you still couldn’t see a bus coming?). Then it was driving and get hit from the side by a car or garbage truck (does no one check for cross traffic?). It’s like the writers have a weekly meeting and decide what the mode of death they’ll all use that week.
Hi!
My sister and I, are Slovak. I read your books (KD) in original, but she can’t, so she reads in Czech language (what is kind of similar language to Slovak).
It’s good translation. Small english puns are translated or I can say transformed into puns she can understand and can laugh on it. However, in my opinion, names of horses should not be translated – every name should stay as it is in original.
Part of the joy I have is the puns, slang, and references to culture that you put in. Thank you for your hard work.
Well I started reading IA in Polish (I think two firsts KD books and On the Edge), so translation could not have been too bad.
But then I got fed up with waiting for next books to be translated cause it takes FOREVER (I get why, but it does).
And in the meantime I got proficient enough to read original on my own.
Half of the references fly over my head thought ^^
Translations are the reason I try to read/watch books/movies etc. in the original language if possible. Some things just can’t be translated. I’d rather not get a cultural reference than having to hope the translator got the tone right.
I started doing this after being fed up with the German translation of Steven Eriksons The Malazan Empire series. It was atrocious and sounded extremely wooden in German. And the translation of the names…
Love the title here so did a quick YouTube dive –
Shirley MacLaine being grumpy in Steel Magnolias:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=biphyhFphMc
Idioms are often random bits of silliness or alliteration specific to an area, so they just have to be learned as they pop up.
I went to Paris as a teenage au pair, and my French was a western-Canadian-anglophone-school version. One day I said to Madame ‘I have a frog in my throat’, which startled her. I coughed to indicate my scratchy voice, and she said ‘oh, non, you have a cat in your throat!’
No cat, no grenouille, just different!
I’m german and the translation is really good. My first Ilona Andrews book was Nevada’s first book on audible because it got the highest customer rating so I gave it a try. Since then I read everything I could find from IA, some in english some in german. I love the voice of the german narrator for HL but I can’t wait for the translation and so I read everything new in english.
That’s true, I read the first three Kate Daniels book in German and they were good. I switched to englisch because I did not want to wait for the translation
I tried to read Magic Bites in traditional Chinese. I think they did a fairly good job. But I was so distracted by trying to pronounce the names phonetically in Chinese that I gave up trying.
Accents and local references are difficult in any two English speaking areas. Must be hard to write to an international audience. It is like the difference between modern English and old pronunciation in Shakespeare’s plays. 95 % of the jokes are missed in modern English, because the puns are in the pronouncing of the words.
I live in Washington state. I had never hear of Piggly Wiggly before reading this blog.
As far as translations go the British English translation of the French comic series Asterix the Gaul are widely regarded as being as good as the original. When required the French puns/wordplay/cultural references are substituted for by English ones. Overall the spirit of the original French version is maintained and occasionally the translators actually manage to make improvements. The name of the lead character’s dog being the lowest hanging fruit in this category.
That’s what I look for in a translation. Not necessarily word for word but keeping the “spirit”, the style and intention of the original text.
Mississippi girl here and we definitely call it The Pig!
With your books being translated into 18 languages, using them to illustrate the challenges that are mentioned in this thread would make a good dissertation topic for a Master’s or Doctoral student, I think.
Totally agree with the quality of the french publishing, they did such a wonderful work. And did you see the covers ? No, but seriously, did you them ? Just wow
For the third book of the series
House A has seen them and they have a set ???? https://ilona-andrews.com/2021/vive-la-france/
So gorgeous ????
Well.. to be honest I’m not from the South and I only understood the hoe joke, literally didnt catch any of the rest lol
so rest assured, I can verify that the book makes a lot of sense without it them 😉
In Carthage, Mississippi, we also call it The Pig. In Richland, however, only an hour away, I grew up calling it Piggly Wiggly (or “the old Jitney Jungle”). Language is funny!
Piggly Wiggly is a weird name for any store. We had one here for years when I was growing up. HEB is a weird name too. I read that it stands for Howard E Butt, the guy who started the grocery store. No one wants to shop at a grocery store named Butt so they used his initials. All I could think was, thank God his parents didn’t name him Harry.
Yes, everyone around here calls it The Pig. I have a friend that will only buy his milk at Piggly Wiggly because he likes Pig milk the best. ????
Really interesting to read – even for a British reader some Americanisms are baffling – and we get no dubbing! The hoe one is OK as are The Fried Green Tomatoes references as the first is popular on TV and the movie is well known. No idea what Piggly Wiggly is however.
This was a charming start to my morning. I loved reliving those moments in the books …. and BTW, I did laugh out loud at hearing about Bale’s hoe, and, Caldenia is absolutely delightful … smiles …. now. She certainly has some glory days to look back upon! Innkeeper is my favorite series, with the Garage Granny (smiles, Hidden Legacy) series a close second. Thanks for all the contented, amused hours of listening pleasure you give me.
I love you explain of the pit falls of language. It’s so perfectly described my experience when I moved from northern Maryland to Kentucky. When talking to a new neighbor and asking if she would do something or other, she replied, “I don’t care to…” I was taken aback at her refusal. Took me quite awhile to figure what she was saying. lol
Very interesting to think about. When I took my first sign language class the instructor talked about how American sign language and spoken American English differ because of pronunciation vs. sight interpretations.
He took the sign for milk (one hand milking a cow) and moved it passed his eyes. He said that for the hearing that is a joke meaning “pasteurized” (past your eyes) milk but the deaf do not understand the joke because it relies on pronunciation.
I hope someone else remembers this: there was a movie, I think in English, with intentionally mangled subtitles, in the same language. Maybe by Mel Brooks?
(The problems with translation reminded me of it. Now I’m banging my head against the wall because I can’t recall the title! Help! A search turned up “Airplane” and I remember that in one scene, but I thought it was an entire movie. Then again, I have a memory like … like … what’s that thing you strain water through?)
Probably was “Silent Movie”. It was a movie about a modern director making a silent movie, and the movie itself was mostly silent. My recollection (from seeing it in the theatre at the time) is that it came out in the early to mid 1970s.
My in-laws from southern Mississippi also refer to Piggly Wiggly as The Pig ????????
In my home town in Mississippi, we call it the pig, piggly
wiggly is a mouth full. ” Where ya goin? ” “The Pig” lol an actual conversation with my daughter.
I worked as a Brand Manager for intellectual properties, and our bread and butter was dealing with international brands and adapting them to the English speaking (and primarily American) market.
I can tell you the translation team we had was super dedicated. They talked a lot with the those connected to the original source for clarification on things when they might be running up against something like pop culture references. And on very rare occasions we’d sometimes have terms that would crop up, and it became more than just a translation issue but might also impact things like marketing and sublicensing issues as well so we’d get roped in to weigh in.
I have a love of language, and so the project translator and I had a very geeked out email exchange, thoughtfully discussing the nuances of calling the fictional leader a King or an Emperor. The term in the originating language wasn’t really one or the other, but those were the best words to translate it into English. Discussions of etymology, and cultural and historical use (of the real world historical influences for the fictional story), and preconceptions, and how it fit with the character, character interactions and plot…
Rarely is that much thought given to most words and terms. it’s usually much more straightforward. But the translator and I had fun. Even months later when we went out to lunch together we brought it up in fond reminiscence.
Usually translations go through layers of thought. First as literal as possible, then you flag the colloquialisms, jokes, historical & cultural aspects, dialect, slang, and poetics (everything from alliteration, allusions, meter, rhyme, onomatopoeia, etc.). Then do you translate that literally, and if you do, do you include a footnote or some such to explain the reference. Or do you find something that is more relatable to the language it’s being translated into.
Translation is definitely an art form.
Then there’s what other nuances of the media format you’re in might you need to consider: like graphic novels you only have so much space for words in those comic panels, if there’s audio components (music, radio dramas, dubbing for tv, film & games, etc.) and are you trying to match music melody, or lip flaps. And the media format and theatrical performance (if you need an actor/narrator) will then force more adjustments too. Then sometimes you’ll have some properties that it’s harder to find people who can translate from one language to another, so if another translation exists already in another more common language they’ll use that as the source instead. (It’s sloppy, but unfortunately it does happen in the world at large).
At my old job every effort was made to keep the same translator on a brand (including next episodes, sequels, prequels, spin-offs, etc.) as much as possible. I’ve seen abysmal inconsistencies in the industry at large in spelling and assignment of property specific terms when there were differences in translators. Or even a lack of QC and coordination between the different departments that used that information.
The best case scenario is when you have a passionate, professional, and highly skilled group tackling it. The ones who aren’t trying to churn it out immediately, but a company willing to allow for the time in the workload to do a deep immersion.
A fun side note, one of the things I’ve appreciated about recent Disney animated films, like Frozen 2, part of their deal to sort of get the blessing of the Sámi of their inclusion in the film, was they have to produce a dubbed version of the film in the indigenous tongue. Similarly when they did Moana, they also set out and produced dubs in indigenous Tahitian, Hawaiian and Māori language versions of Moana.
When you consider how racism and things like the mission school system were used to obliterate indigenous culture globally, many of the languages are disappearing. This is why a lot of tribes are pushing to have language learning apps, or doing dubs of blockbuster movies like Navajo versions of Star Wars and Finding Nemo to try to keep the language fun and relevant to what the youth of those cultures is being exposed to.
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And for a funny here’s a meme (for those that don’t know Spanish, the conjugation of the Spanish verb “Ser” (meaning “to be” in the first person singular), is usually rendered as “yo soy” and thus in English would be “I am”.
“Soy milk” just gave me such a good laugh. Thanks for the funny!
The job sounds like a translator’s dream 🙂
This is where translations run into problems because language is contextual to the time and culture it is in. It isn’t just slang, it is that a native speaker fills in the blanks ( that includes reginal dialects). As a native American English speaker I can figure out that Going to the pig meant Piggly wiggly bc I know that store exists. I was reading one of Susanna Kersely’s amazing historical fiction novels, the character is speaking Doric ( apparently an dialect of Scots’ English I would gather), and I could figure it out from context. It is why reading religious texts can be problematic if you don’t know the context to those who wrote it, even translators fail to pick up the nuance of a word. My wife is Hungarian and it has sayings and such that if you tried to translate it makes no sense in English ( puddle of green frog poop , a curse laid on someone, is prob the closest to be true).
There was a delightful cartoon made in the 40s, either Merrie Melodies or MGM, where this 40s hep cat dies and is talking to st Peter,who can’t make heads or tails out of it. He gets Noah Webster who visualuzes things like ‘cutting a rug’ ( dancing) to ‘ painting the town red with my baby’s ( having a wild time with his girlfriend)….
I just wanted to thank the Authorlords and this community for getting me through some tough times. I had ACL surgery yesterday- really quite excruciating, did not expect the level of pain I’m in- and just started a comfort reread of Clean Sweep to get my mind off of things. So grateful for the escape to your worlds!
Speedy recovery Mina, I hope the pain subsides soon!
We live in northern Georgia and call it “The Pig” too. In fact, I’ve never actually heard it called Piggly Wiggly before and I’m 52!
Well, they change things from British editions to American editions. For example, Harry Potter’s slang is different in the original English vs what America got. I’m sure the internet has made things easier since then for people reading a translated edition.
Yes, it drove me crazy to see the American editions of Harry Potter when I moved to the US from Canada ( which has the Brit ones). And that they changed the title of Book 1 for Americans. I love the way the Brits turn a phrase and don’t think it hurts anyone to read in a different ‘version’ of English.
Off topic, but there was an interesting article on authors who loved or hated changes made to onscreen adaptations. I have not actually read any of the source material, but I have seen a lot of the movies.
https://www.buzzfeed.com/marycolussi/book-to-screen-changes-authors-loved-versus-hated
I just found out that the deep south has Piggly Wiggly and a Hoggly Woggly. I thought it was a joke. Apparently not.
Hoggly Woggly was a nickname for Piggly Wiggly
Like Montgomery Wards was sometimes referred to a Monkey Wards
I read the Edge series in German, it’s my mother tongue and I like to try and stay fluent. It was a good translation, albeit very odd to read American culture and life described in German. Not sure I caught all the jokes in German, cuz I don’t keep up with German culture that much. Definitely got all of the US pop culture references though.
I grew up in northern N.Y. and have lived in Massachusetts for over 30 years… have never heard of a piggly wiggly! But I can tell a story about going to college in upstate N.Y. and getting into an argument with someone from Rochester N.Y. (about 100 miles from where I grew up) about that sugary carbonated beverage I called “soda” and the other person called “pop.” To them “soda” was what I’d call “tonic.” We were all very confused… despite growing up less than a 100 miles apart!
Yep, pop in the Midwest, soda most everywhere else, except Georgia (or maybe just Atlanta) where it’s Coke.
As an Aussie I obviously speak English but alot of content I miss too, and the book isn’t even translated. We learn about your culture growing up but alot is still missed. I don’t mind and still enjoy the story when it does happen.
Lol. I remember the Piggly Wiggly. It was the only grocery store when my parents moved us to clear Lake city back when my dad took a job at NASA. It went out of business a long time ago. Now they have so many grocery stores it is ridiculous. Even acknowledging I’ve heard of it dates me. That is definitely an obscure reference.
There are things that are lost in translation – if everything else fails, the translator can always add a footnote with the explanation of the joke. Actually, it’s always been fun for me to read such footnotes and other commentaries where the translator explained the untranslatable puns – it provided a deep-dive into another culture and showed that the translators did a research.
For example, Amber Chronicles by Zelazny has several Russian translations of different quality – and my personal favorite is the one made by Yan Yua (Ян Юа) team. They have an additional section at the end of each book explaining the cultural references.
Unfortunately, many translators add their own ideas and words that were not present in the original – sometimes even changing the meaning of the content. For example, the translators for Captain Blood’s books by Sabatini added whole new sentences. In the attached screenshot, all the bold text in Russian version shows the additional content that did not exist in the English original text. The translators decided to add that Arabella would blush, Major Mallard would have eyes bulging in surprise, Blood would call her ‘my dear’ and shoot an amused look at the stunned Major, and Arabella would realize that she wouldn’t get another answer with the Major present.
attachment got lost
I’m Australian and one of my favourite sayings is. “Stop carrying on like a pork chop.” Usually said to my children when they are acting inappropriately.
Also, fanny packs. Definitely not called that in Aus.
In a college Shakespeare class, my professor stated that in the accent of the time, the word ‘hour’ was pronounced similarly to the word ‘whore.’ The line: ‘And so from hour to hour, we ripe and ripe, and then, from hour to hour, we rot and rot…” was a similar joke to yours.
I’m French. I read in English since years.
Seriously, I don’t understand all the jokes or references. But I love the style, the atmosphere, the ambiance. I love the brain who constructs the text.
Sometimes, I find a reference explained somewhere, and it click. And it’s wonderful.
All experiences is made around references. I’ve found a discussion about Princess Bride, about a lot of people who didn’t know the reference.
So, seriously, sometimes, you reopen a book 10 years after having read it and you’ve became a parent, and it’s not the same anymore. That’s the same logic.
I love your logic. Your viewing of life. I miss some jokes. I still love your work.
I’ve heard somewhere this sentence: “Translation I like a mistress beautiful or faithful “
My husband is a HUGE fan of old Japanese scifi movies. I have seen Godzilla battle everything from Rhodan to Mothra to a large buck deer! We have always been great fans of Japanese lip sinking to English. When you imagine your own scripts it becomes especially hilarious!
Piggly Wiggly is also called Hoggly Woggly in the deep South. 🙂
I was born in Georgia but brought up in Florida, which everyone in the South knows is just a suburb of New York. My mother and father, however, were both born and raised in the North Georgia mountains so I grew up wearing straw hats with hideous flowers on them in the summer when I went to my grannies house to help pull and shuck corn and toss potatoes in the garden. We loved fried green tomatoes (as well as wonderful sweet ripe ones) and fried okra and yellow squash. NOTHING was better than fresh white half runner green beans from grannies garden served with fresh mashed potatoes and ripe tomatoes with crisp fried yellow squash. Throw in a fried chicken or two and some sweet tea and you had Southern Heaven!!
Lol i was introduced to Piggly Wiggly whe. We koved to Savannah when I was 11
We called it The Pig and Hoggly Woggly
After the movie “Vacation”, Wal-Mart became Wally World. Regional and cultural references and nick names can be completely confusing
I took enough Italian in college – and lived in Italy- for a year that I could take a class in Machiavelli in Italian and understand it. It was pretty interesting to compare what I knew was meant in a passage to how it got translated in English. I bought 3 high quality translations and none of them quite got it. I am grateful for this short, small glimpse into the difficulties of translations. It was really interesting.