I don’t know if you would want to answer this on the blog, but it’s something I’ve wondered for a while. I enjoy the diversity in your books and how well you normalise queer relationships. I was ecstatic when you gave Barabas and Christopher the beginnings of a relationship in Magic Binds. And the way the balance of their equation changed towards the end, there is surely a novella worth of story to tell about those two. But while, in the case of Jim/Dali and Andrea/Raphael I pretty much expected a novella dealing with their romance (thank you for their stories!), I find myself tamping down hope that Barabas and Christopher will ever get their own book. LGBT+ romances tend to be treated like tiny niche genres and most mainstream authors don’t deviate from straight romances to put out a novel/novella on queer characters. (Especially when most of their series has dealt with straight couples.) I’ve heard people defend this by saying that it would confuse/alienate their readers, or that the book may not sell.
So, my question(s) is:
When discussing Barabas and Christopher’s romantic arc, did you stop to wonder about your readers’ reaction? Given how popular the characters are, will you consider putting out a novella on them? How difficult is it (in general) to write queer relationships in a mainstream series? And how do publishers react to pitches with a same sex couple in it, outside the literary fiction world?
^I couldn’t distil my questions into a single one, but I would be happy with an answer to any of them.
One at a time. 🙂
When discussing Barabas and Christopher’s romantic arc, did you stop to wonder about your readers’ reaction?
No, we don’t really wonder about reader reactions to Christopher and Barabas or any other LGBT couple or person. There was this big furor about five years back about how daring it was to write about LGBT characters and how their mystic ways had to be learned and researched as if they were from another planet. Gordon and I talked about this before and we never understood it. People are people. From our point of view, one writes about LGBT couple just like one would write about any couple. Robert and Thomas are married. They are just like any other long-term couple, with problems and issues and deep love for each other. Christopher and Barabas are trying to figure out how to become a couple or if they will even become a couple. That’s kind of it.
Given how popular the characters are, will you consider putting out a novella on them?
It’s not the matter of popularity, but, as corny as it sounds, inspiration. We have done work-on-demand before, where we are contractually obligated to write a book or a novella, and we make it happen, but it’s not as much fun as when you get a really awesome idea. At the moment, neither of us has an awesome idea. We’ll wait until we get one.
How difficult is it (in general) to write queer relationships in a mainstream series?
Nobody has ever emailed us, from publishing house or anywhere, in fact, and asked us to alter any of the LGBT relationships in our work. I would have to say, zero pressure for us personally to change the narrative in any way.
And how do publishers react to pitches with a same sex couple in it, outside the literary fiction world?
I don’t know. We’ve never pitched one, so I have no personal experience with this. Sorry to not be more knowledgeable. Not being snarky here. I’m genuinely sorry I cannot provide more data points. If we’re ever in the fortunate position to pitch something like that, I will report on success or failure.
One of the things that I should probably mention, because we did get a few worried emails about it before. There is an entire genre of male/male romances written usually by straight women and, I believe, read widely by straight women, that feature a high level of heat. One of the tropes of this genre is portraying a relationship between two men where one is very dominants and the other is very submissive and almost feminine. We are not going that route. It doesn’t match the tone of KD series and it doesn’t match the characters. That’s simply not who Christopoher and Barabas are.
If the novella happens, it will be more of a romantic love story rather than an erotic relationship. Christopher and Barabas are very complicated and simply throwing them in bed together isn’t going to sort things out. That’s actually one of the difficulties with writing such a novella: not only they are complicated, but they are men. Not just any men, but men who are used to guarding themselves and doing their best to appear inscrutable.
It would have to be nuanced, because Barabas, for example, isn’t going to say, “I’m really attracted to you, Christopher, but I’m conflicted about the sincerity of your feelings. I know you believe them to be genuine but we can’t ignore the fact that you were in a vulnerable state for a long time, with me as your primary caretaker. That sort of relationship often results in attachment, and if we were to pursue a romantic relationship, I’m worried that in time you will come to regret it, so my personal ethics do not allow me to move forward.” He’s going to say, “I don’t need to see him in a suit.”
Hopefully, that answers your questions.
I’ve loved Christopher and Barabas from the moment each of them first appeared in your books. Thank you for posting these answers about them! And if you were to ever write a novella about them, I’d personally love it.
You nailed it.
I feel the same way.
I am very happy that this question was answered. I was super happy about Barabas and Christopher’s arc because I love the characters and you do character development so well. Honestly, I would love a novella, because it would give me a deeper insight into their own interactions and make their actions and quips in the main KD series more impactful. However, I know that this wish will take a while because you will not write a book for the sake of it. They are such nuanced characters and Christopher’s past coming to light makes it so much harder. I would be ecstatic to read it, and I would hope the romance would be the important part, kind of like the first Jim/Dali novella. It seems that it is your plan, and I love that I found authors that give respect to their characters. My only hope is that if we ever get this treat, it might be sooner rather than later.
It did take 2 novellas for Jim and Dali to get into bed. Just saying. 😛
I thought the “don’t need to see him in a suit” line was perfect.
Too darn funny!
I really love how you write about Robert and Thomas just having an ordinary marriage with problems, angst, and love. It would be the same way with Christopher and Barabas. I agree….people are people. I would buy a novella about Christopher and Barabas when it’s time. It would be interesting to read about Christopher and Barabas getting their uncertainties and what they think are hurdles to a relationship outside of friendship.
I agree with Tink about the “don’t need to see him in a suit” line. It’s perfect. 🙂
I agree with Tink and others. The “suit” line was perfect. Could also be used in a hetero dialogue regarding a reticent woman’s attraction (sexual) to a man. Does there have to be a gushing of emotion or a spewing of thirty sentences to distinguish a softer or more effeminate character, especially with same sex couples? The brouhaha around LGBT relationships and treatment in romance should focus on the personalities involved vs the “role” in relationship. For me, the writing of the Clan Rat alphas is so good because there isn’t a need to provide specific or overt dialogue and behaviors to show the strength of their pairing bond. They both appear to be masculine males who love each other, sexually and otherwise.
What I love about your world building are the evolution of your characters and stories events and that they don’t seem/read/feel as being forced or contrived. They grow with each book and we will hate not being able to share in that when the KD series ends. That’s why you still have a mournful Edge fandom—well, speaking for myself.
Ditto to all of this.
I really don’t care what a character’s orientation is. If I like him or her, I’d like to know more about them. I have enjoyed all of Dana Marie Bell’s True Destiny series and that includes all kinds of relationships.
The only problem I have is, if I even check to see what kind of book a M/M romance is, Amazon decides that’s what I read and it takes me days to see anything else on my recommendation lists. Annoying, but not fatal.
So, if inspiration strikes and Barabas and Christopher get their story, it will be on my “buy immediately” list, just like the rest of Kate’s friends. I’ll deal with Amazon.
Barabas is one of my favorite characters in the entire series. I hope the inspiration strikes, it would be wonderful to see him happy. And if Christopher turns out to be the one, that would be wonderful. The proverbial cherry on top.
Also, I really, really love the relationship of Robert and Thomas. They’re just about the best Alphas in the whole pack. They are so lucky to have found each other.
❤
Oded Fehr is back.. *sigh
Ditto
* Ditto about the review 😆 Avatar is ok, but I focus on text
I like how you build your world, the characters relationships are very natural feeling. You both have the gift to make the reader feel like the world is real and they are inside of it. That is why anything you write is on immediate auto-buy and read the instant I get it downloaded.
If you did write a book around them, I wouldn’t expect them to jump into bed at all. That isn’t how your characters develop relationships. It takes time to get work out issues and get together. Not to say it wouldn’t happen, they have known each other for quite awhile, but I wouldn’t expect it.
While a Christopher and Barabas novella does sound tempting, I confess I rather like your method of showing bits and pieces of their life and story in the KD books. It’s a good stress breaker, a reminder that even when everything is going to pieces, there is still hope.
For a long time I thought that you guys brought Christopher into the narrative simply to get Kate and team out of hopeless and impossible situations. Not that the Christopher-Barabas arc was a surprise, but they have gone too slow. It was needed by the story, and I loved it.
It was almost as satisfying as the slow burn of the Kate-Curran relationship, and it isn’t over yet! They have still to confess their attraction, first to themselves, then to each other.
It’s too long to cram into the 10th book, so maybe the novella idea is good, but I was kind of hoping for a continuation of this arc in the Grey Wolf series, because the KD world is anyway deep into conflict right now, so it’s not as if they lack monsters and villains to kill and bond over. We all know it’s going to happen.
And because Julie and Derek will also take along time to get together, Christopher and Barnabas will get enough time to sort out their issues, and even act as mentors and friends to Julie and Derek. That will be fun to read!
I was actually surprised about the idea of a Barabas and Christopher novella because for some reason it didn’t cross my mind…. but maybe after another book and more minor development, I would love a book 😀
Barabs straightening the stack of paper and saying “Because I don’t need to see him in a suit” was one of my favorite scenes in the KD stories. B&C are outstanding characters, and I agree that both they and we as readers will have to earn progress on their relationship.
I’m so relieved to see your answers and the comments here. I’m writing an urban fantasy/PNR with several queer characters. The main couple is straight, but I’m planning spinoffs starring a few of those queer characters. I’ve been nervous about how my readers will react–and whether the books will be publishable. I do know character likeability isn’t an issue–two married gay vampires are probably my beta readers’ favorite characters. But I haven’t seen any authors doing romances with M/F, M/M, and F/F in the same series (let alone trans and genderqueer!). Everyone seems to pick a lane and stay in it, and the only deviations are poly relationships that still include at least one man and one woman. So, this is reassuring to hear.
I’d also love to see Christopher and Barabas get their own novella. The evolution of their relationship in the last KD book made me so happy. (Ditto about the “I don’t need to see him in a suit” line!) Fingers crossed inspiration strikes you. 😀
Gail Carriger has M/F and F/F published with a M/M scheduled for later this year in her Soulless world.
Check out Suzanne Brockmann. Her Troubleshooter series is fantastic (one of my top three series [along with KD and HP]) and features people you follow for a very long time. She has a M/M couple that have an arc through several books and a novelette/book of their own. She has a son who is gay and the dedication to him in that book had me in tears.
Aww. I’ll have to look for that–and maybe take another look at Gail Carriger, too. I started Parasol Protectorate, but her use of every adverb ever all the time drove me nuts. I barely made it through the first chapter. :-/
Thank you for the recommendations!
Lori Foster has an M/m novella attached to her Men that walk the edge series. So mainstream authors are doing it, as the other examples show as well
I haven’t read JR Ward in awhile, but I seem to recall she had an M/M book, too, that included characters that had been in the series from the beginning.
Ohhh! They have soooo many issues to work through… There are plenty of internal conflicts to resolve while living together and fighting beside Kate&Curran and family.
I can’t wait to see more of Christopher and Barabas in KD books, in their own novella or anywhere really!!!
“Not just any men, but men who are used to guarding themselves and doing their best to appear inscrutable.”
I am ridiculously charmed by the thought of Barabas as inscrutable.
I’m a lot more interested in seeing how they work out their relationship than I am in their particular path to bed. It’s such an interesting way to acquire both shared personal history and then a lot of unknowns and baggage – wham! (And is any of this likely going to put Barabas in his bad relationship patterns?) There just seems like so much room for interesting stories to tell… as the world burns.
I really like the approach you’ve outlined. I’ve only had fleeting contact with M/M romance as written by straight women, so I can’t speak about it with any authority – I knew folks some years back. I hear a lot more now from some of the gay men I know who have been somewhat bitter about its existence, and have said that it… I think exploits and misrepresents them is the gist, though I’m sure there are essays on the subject about. I’m not sure if this actually changes my opinion in this case much in the end – I mean, any soft focus fade out to lavendar finish would be just so wrong. I really don’t have any skin in the game, being neither a gay man nore a straight female consumer of M/M fic. Also… how shall I put it? I’m bi. Straight men drooling over lesbian porn (or, rather, straight male created faux lesbian porn)? That would be last Tuesday, right? I have neither energy nor pearls to clutch.
It really doesn’t matter to me as long as I like the character. I never really think about any of Ilona’s characters being gay. That said, I don’t like it when authors slap you in the face with it every few paragraphs/chapters like they want to make SURE you know the character is gay or Asian or black or any of half a dozen other things. Then the character and story sink into the background while the author makes the characters’ differences the story.
Barabas and Christopher are one of my favorite (potential) couple in Kate Daniels, right after Curran and Kate because they are so interesting and incredible. I didn’t know how much I love them until the next KD and I thought “Wow, this has the potential to be magnificent.”
Thank you for answering this question and also explaining more of their (so complicated) relationship.
Kresley Cole’s latest book is a M/M novel, which I loved, but then again I’m a M/M reader. That did give me hope though that it would be more mainstream, instead of having to go to certain websites/publishers to get the stories.
I love your blog! So many interesting things to read! If you write it I will buy it. Hope you have a good Easter!
I’m a huge M/M romance fan and it skews my perception – I tend to see it everywhere. When we were told only Kate or Barabas could get Christophe down the roof, they pinged on my radar. Then Barabas and Christopher moved in the house next to Kate. Together. That made me so happy! …But I feared it might be me projecting because I like MM so much. I’m so glad they’re officially confirmed as a(n) (almost)couple \(^_^)/
It’s thrilling to have MM relationships emerge in mainstream romance – JR Ward did it in her Brotherhood series, and I’m holding my breath waiting to see if Nalini Singh will do it in her Guild series. Now I’ve got to go and check out Kresley Cole!
N.B.: it’s true most M/M authors are women and they mainly cater to women readers. Lots of authors use initials, but I often can tell whether a romance is written by a man or a woman.
I recently read Captive Prince by C.S. Pacat and had to read book 2 and 3 also.
I didn’t even know ‘m|m’ for women was a ‘book thing’ or ‘mc’ or ‘mafia’ – never realised I was so ‘sheltered’ hehe ?
Still, I do prefer the slow build-up and romance and love and character development rather than the wham-bang or love-at-first-sight wham-bang!
I love Christopher and Barabbas individually and together. I don’t need to see them in their birthday suits. Of course, I’m the kind of reader who sometimes skims sex scenes to get to the rest of the story, especially if it’s late at night and I’m reading it for the first time.
Thank you for answering this! I, too, appreciate how your novels (and short stories, and novellas, and everything) stays very diverse, especially with LGBT+. I hope that if you do ever write a Barbaros/Christopher story, that you don’t get push back.
Also, can’t wait for White Hot. Saw your other post of a moment of insecurity that the sales won’t be great – pretty sure that won’t happen, but you know that it will be great already 🙂
I love your development of characters and their diversity. I’ve always loved Barabas because of his sarcastic sense of humor and unswerving loyalty to Kate. The fact that he was Christopher’s caretaker and now Christopher is the one with more power has just made the relationship more interesting. No relationship is strictly 50-50, but in the KDverse they’re constantly shifting back and forth and sideways. That’s what makes them so fascinating to read. I don’t read M/M romances, but I also don’t get vapors if one occurs organically within a series or story I like. The world is made up of a great diversity of races, religions and sexual orientation, so our stories should reflect that. Yours do to a much greater extent than many others. That’s why I love them so much. Thank you.
I love these two together – and I would definitely buy a novella about them, but if no inspiration strikes then I’ll be more than content to just read about them in the main series. I would rather more of what we got in the last book (the suit line was perfect!) than a novella that didn’t do them justice.
My second favorite B&C scene was the “I don’t need to see him in a suit” scene. It was actually my favorite scene until we got to the end, and Barabbas was waiting for Kate and Christopher in the forest. Despite regaining his powers and knowledge of who he is & was, Christopher still needed Barabbas to help him maintain control. I loved that scene….
But maybe someone can help me out? Earlier in the book, when Curran and others are trying to subdue Christopher, Kate warns everyone to not let him bite anyone. In the battle scene, he does. There didn’t seem to be any ill effect on Christopher — the other guy died obviously — so what was Kate’s concern? For Christopher or the others? Or both – because obviously being bitten by a god would not be fun….
And since we all seem to be voting, I would snap up a B&C novella in a heart-beat but I snap up everything the Author Lords write 🙂
Happy Easter to all!
Like you said, people are people. Among my friends, some of them are in a same sex relationship and it makes no difference to me. I’m am just happy that they found someone who makes them happy. I recently finished the audio book Magic Binds and I loved all of it. The way the relation between Christopher and Barabas has evolved through the books has been wonderfully written. Thank you.
Exactly what I wanted to say!
Perhaps Gordon will be inspired to develop the B&C novella as he writes Hugh’s book. Surely the reapperance of Hugh will stir up emotions and memories for Christopher. It could be a starting point of where Christopher starts to delve further into his past as his memories return and he then has to adjust and reconcile these memories through the eyes and mindset of the person who he is now. Also this would also give Barabas an opportunity to reconcile his need to take care of someone (you mentioned this in a earlier book that his mother said that he was finally in a relationship where he was needed) and his desire(?) of having someone take care of him. So it would be B&C facing the demons of Christopher’s past.
I love the way you handle non-heterosexual individuals and couples in your writing… because sometimes I find that authors present individuals and couples who are LGB (let’s be honest, trans, genderqueer, aces, etc. are pretty hard to find, especially to have them be in a couple. Not all of us aces are aromantic.) first, and secondarily they are characters. As if they’re going, “my writing lacks diversity. I know, I will include some gay guys. Wow, I am so diverse and open minded!” Or, alternatively, “I have these two same-sex characters who are established as roommates; now it is convenient for me to make them homosexual in order to appeal to a wider demographic.” I don’t care if the characters are in a sexual relationship but it should either be established early, be built up, or have a very solid reason for having been hidden (and even then there should probably be some kind of foreshadowing going on).
Whereas with your characters, I feel like they’re built more from a perspective of, “We have this character and we know all of these things about him, one of which happens to be that he is gay and in a relationship with another character.” They are characters first. They act like people instead of like the token gay character. And, your other characters treat them accordingly: they are just people, who interact with other people, and sometimes their sexuality is relevant but often it is not. The same is true of other aspects of different characters. You do very well with diversity. It makes your worlds seem very solid and well-grounded.
So, I was reading the second of another well-known UF writer’s series, a writer I very much enjoy, when it struck me that there were *no* LBGTQ characters in either of the series I’d read. And I found that very sad, and disturbing. There was lots of ethnic diversity, which is always welcome, but none on the sexual orientation front. I started reading this author at the same time I started reading you, and the contrast is marked. Have very much enjoyed, I should say. I can’t really un-notice the lack, kinda ashamed that it took me this long to cop to it. Bleh.
(I mourn The Edge, too. Love that series. Love the Inn, too, but it’s not the same.)
Until I read this post question, this aspect of relationship even didn’t occur to me. I thought Barabas was merely being kind and a friend. Every relationship, even in romance books doesn’t have to be amorous, does it ?
I agree.
No, but this one is. 🙂
I’m with you Era, I had no idea B & C were a “couple”. It must time for a reread because I don’t know how I missed it.
su
Still no book signings in Australia +sad+
A were-koala would have huge claws but could be a vegetarian friend for Dali???
Still no Australian book signing +sigh+
A were-koala would have huge claws but would be a vegetarian friend for Dali???
Oops!! Double posting.
Sorry, but maybe double the sentiment?
Hey, my understanding is that when magic returned, a lot of people discovered that their families were were-this or that, sometimes things that were now extinct (Curran’s particular lion, the hyena from the last book…)
…what I’m saying is were-thylacine.
Better than we’re-muttaburrasaurus!!
That, at least, wouldn’t be Lyc-V!
(But it would be awesome. Oh, I want that.)
Beware of the Drop Bears~~~
Naughty!
What about a were-Care Bear? 😛
Too cute! But unAustralian!
I like that both Robert and Thomas/Christopher and Barabas both don’t feel like you checked off a bullet on a list. So many urban fantasies of late have felt like “OH gosh! I should put in LGBT characters because if I don’t I look strange!” And then the author goes on to hit every stereotype known to mankind in their story. With the way you approach (people are people) the whole sexuality factor is not the forefront, it’s an aspect of the whole. It’s almost as if this is the perfect equality factor, all characters are treated equally, with equal chance to get love and equal chance to get their asses kicked.
It is fabulous.
Funnily enough, it never occurred to me that Thomas and Robert have a M/M relationship, or that if they had a novella it would get a LGBT label etc, and the same goes for Barabas and Christopher. All I remember during the “I don’t need to see him in a suit scene”, was “squeeeee”, yeah, no coherent thought in there, straightforward fangirling. I love that IA don’t do labels, people have relationships, all kinds, no labels necessary.
I never expected a novella for B&C, mostly cause they have a mountain’s worth of obstacles between them. Probably not more than K&C, but it took K&C many many books to work out their relationship. B&C’s relationship feels like a slow burn, neither would do anything forthright, especially not when the world is fallen apart around them, and they are both instrumental in saving it. But I like it this way, it makes every interaction between them precious and delicious.
So I was really trying to think how to respond to this post or if I should. I don’t seek out alternative relationships because they are just not what I enjoy. I especially do not enjoy authors who write them as a soap box for activism. I did however appreciate and respect your response. Because in the end I just enjoy a good book.
The reason why I continue to read this series and love it so much is; 1) because it’s based out of Atlanta (my home); 2) your books while urban fantasy, have relationships with the with the correct amount of conflict and struggle. And this is something that easily relatable.
It’s also important to say you’re one of the few authors who writes about interracial relationships with such ease. I’ve read books have same-sex relationships. This as been popular for a long time. What is RARE is an author that will read about different cultures and races. I am not talking about the Indian or Spainish male who falls in love with the blonde hair blue-eyed female.
In fact I often think that some are a lot more comfortable writing about two white males in a relationship than about a black female and a white male, an Asian woman and a Latin male or an Eastern European female with a Middle Eastern male. Or course if the book does have interracial relationships, it is rare that the book cover will represent it. Not sure if a book cover of an Asian male and a West African female would be eye catching for most.
Your books even switch it up and have two separate species getting together and making their relationship work.
I read your books because they simply draw me in. The diversity is just an added plus and keeps its REAL, the way only the paranormal urban fantasy genre can…..which is rare and I truly appreciate that I get to read about blended families and relationship I can relate too as the majority of the books I read either don’t or won’t.
“I don’t need to see him in a suit.”
Genius!
I would LOVE LOVE LOVE to get a chance to read Barabas and Christopher’s story. After reading KD9 I was chanting Barabas and Christopher in my head, oh and KATE is having a baby. I’m biased when it comes to your books though because you write I buy. I can’t wait for you to but me out of my misery and let us know if there will be a story about Barabas and Christopher. Thanks for all your great stories whenever I find myself in a book funk, not able to find a book to read your KD books are always my go-to books I even bought your audio for the days I have to clean. 😉
Wow! Just an awesome answer, thank you! ??
I am going to be TOTALLY SELFISH and wish that the AUTHORLORDS write at least 3 more Kate and Curran books and continue to develop the
relationship between Christopher and Barabas
Sad to say, I too am selfish. I would like many more books in Kate’s world. The good news is, all the author’s books are great, and they like to write! So we may not get Kate, but we will probably get great stories.?
Just chiming in to say that I love Christopher and Barabas and realise that their relationship would need a ridiculously long burn because of the whole caretaker thing.
I’m so happy this question was asked. *Does jig*
I love Barabas and the little tidbits we’ve gotten about his relationship troubles throughout the Kate Daniels series.
His reluctance to commit and the fact his brain is engaged. He’s thinking this through, it’s not simply I’m attracted to this person, therefore I must love this person. That coupled with Christopher’s surety.
RomCom heaven!!! And all that’s before the ass-kicking and the sexy bits. The potential perfection!
I have to say. What wonderful questions and what fabulous answers. Thank you!
This..! This, this is why I have been, and always shall be, your fan.
Yes, yes, yes, a novella about Christopher and Barabas!
As a gay girl who reads everything I can get my hands on, I have very much appreciated the quality of the Authorlords’ work, and also love that every relationship they write has made sense. Superb! So true that a relationship is a relationship, no matter who’s involved – we all have moments of “alpha” and moments of “beta” in friendships, marriages, families, and even work relationships. Bravo for all you do!
After reading all the comments I was beginning to think I missed an entire book! I’ll have to go back and reread, must have been very distracted that day. I haven’t read any Brockmann books for a long time. She concentrated on the movie stuff for a while so I just moved on.
Of note. Elizabeth Briggs (no relation to Patricia Briggs, I asked) has two YA books out. I thought they were interesting enough to mention.