Behold the great huntress.
As you all know, this is Tuna. In addition to Tuna we have Oliver and Salem, who are both senior cats. We are a multiple litter box household. So when I saw Catson on Kickstarter, I decided to back it.
I considered pledging money for 2 Catsons, but I am naturally cautious, so I pledged for 1 Catson instead to the tune of $219 plus $60 shipping for a grand total of $279. The original shipping date was early February. Things got busy and I forgot about this until I received a nudge from Pledgebox.
Why do I need to pay $177 in shipping? I already paid $60.
So I go to the site and see this shipping update asking for extra money. And then I read the comments. And then I see this.
This is “Catson.” On Alibaba, a Chinese distribution site. Here is a link to one of them. There are several available.
From Kickstarter TOS:
Throughout the process, creators owe their backers a high standard of effort, honest communication, and a dedication to bringing the project to life. At the same time, backers must understand that they’re not buying something when they back a project—they’re helping to create something new, not ordering something that already exists. There may be changes or delays, and there’s a chance something could happen that prevents the creator from being able to finish the project as promised.
Kickstarter: https://www.kickstarter.com/terms-of-use#section4
This is a clear case of fraud.
Update: someone pointed out that this could be the Chinese supplier selling a knock-off of the original design. That can be true. However, nowhere in that listing on Kickstarter it says that patent is pending, nor is there a patent for this litterbox registered in US. I looked. And another update, Kickstarter companies don’t always file patents.
We can debate this all day. Why don’t we go back to the point of this post instead, the part where all of the backers haven’t received the product or any communication explaining when it might arrive?
To summarize:
- Nobody received a Catson.
- Nobody has heard from Catson team since they sent demands for more money. Attempts to reach them on Facebook, Kickstarter, and other venues have failed.
- Numerous complaints have been made to Kickstarter by the backers of this project.
- No refunds have been issued by Catson.
- No refunds have been issued by Kickstarter.
- No refunds have been issued by banks, because the terms of Kickstarter make it difficult to obtain the refund.
How much trust do I have in the Kickstarter right now? Zero.
To be clear, this is not a cry for help. I don’t want you to go and bomb Kickstarter with this post, because that would be weaponizing our audience and we never want to do that. I mean it. But I do want you to be aware that Kickstarter will hold on to your money even if you are defrauded. And right now as of this morning, Catson has a new campaign on Indiegogo. They are truly shameless.
Here is a video of Tuna, because I don’t want to end the post on a sour note.
Still less than I got scammed out for that damn door. I am still the champion of pissing away our hard earned dough. Yay me?
Honey, the guy had excellent reviews and you had no way of knowing that he would self-destruct amid numerous lawsuits. How long are you planning on beating yourself up about it?
I think it’s because I believe myself to be an excellent judge of character who is rarely surprised by people. It’s the feeling stupid that really stings. Well, that and the dough.
You two are so cute! Love how supportive you are of each other!
Now everyone is going to want the door story LOL
LOL… Yes, I want to hear the door story now!
Our very savvy financial guy was scammed by a contractor for 7000.00. It happens to the best of us—unfortunately ????. I’m sorry to hear that it happened to you.
The feeling stupid
Money is money but stupid stays with you.
It is honest people who usually get scammed. When your a good person you don’t see these people coming. That is why they succeed.
+1!
Aww Tuna in a tree is so cute.
So sorry you were scammed.
We have a multi cat home and use the Petsafe ScoopFree system, a lot cheaper than the PetRobot.
That almost happened to us once: we ordered a classic expendable dining room table on a website only to get no replies from enquiries.
Ended up learning the owner had passed away and his son managed the orders already received. Took a while and the table was not perfect, but we were just happy to get something close enough, pfew.
I do love Tuna. Hate being ripped off.
My husband was scammed. Ordered 2 beach chairs. 2 bags for the chairs (at least I think that’s what they were.) No paperwork included. Claimed chairs were delivered, about 6 after ordered. Went round and round. Finally agreed to accept a $10 refund just because was sick of trying to straighten the details out. Never even got that! Now will not order anything being shipped from China.
You don’t often see a Tuna in a tree…
Sorry you got scammed. I’ve never done a Kickstarter. Good to know.
Yes, we have certainly learned over the past year that some people are shameless.
A Tuna in a tree is a good antidote for that.
I’m so sorry. Thanks for giving all of us the warning!
I have backed many Kickstarters, and while several have been late (horrifically so in a few cases), I have been blessed to have eventually gotten everything.
That said, when the campaigns go wrong, the REALLY go wrong. Backers beware….????
I got burned by IndieGoGo for wireless earbuds. I did, eventually, get them. But they didn’t work, and out of the box, were physically falling apart. I just got an email with gluing instructions…for the supposedly waterproof earbuds. Yeah, I didn’t even try.
I have used Kickstart successfully as well. Though in my case it was for known artists/writers who I follow, and who provided links to their Kickstarters.
Same here! ????
That’s awful. I remember seeing this kickstarter after I got my Litter Robot (love it btw, wish it wasn’t so frikkin expensive though), and wishing I had seen it sooner. But because of how flimsy it looked, and bc I just spent $$ on my litter robot, I passed on backing.
They sure made it look great though. So props to their promotion team for sure. Scammers really know how to work ya over.
++ for the Litter Robot – but make sure to get the large one if you get.
Just recently got the litter robot, and loving it. Now my cat that *must have clean litter always or I will pee on your clothes” is happy.
For those of you that have the Litter Robot, how difficult is it to clean? How often do you have to replace the carbon filters? Can you use other liners for the drawer than what they supply? Because having looked at that, it is super tempting, but I have questions. ????
I adore my litter robot!!
I usually deep clean it once a year with the hose outside. I have to admit, I’ve never changed my carbon filter and haven’t noticed any smells. I also use standard sized kitchen trash bags for the collection unit and it’s been great!
Their customer service is excellent and I would buy another one in a heartbeat.
I use regular trash bags and wipe down the insides about once a month with a clorox wipe.
totally worth the money in my mind
I had 1 litter robot and just added 2 more. I have a lot of cats. The units rock. Minimal care and upkeep. I use regular trash bags. They have reduced dust and odor. Love em, very much worth the price IMO.
I’ve had the Litter-Robot, upgraded once, for 5+ years. It is pricey but reliable and works so well, especially with the full sensor now, it won’t cycle if there isn’t room in the drawer. For my single cat I really only NEED to change the drawer once a week. Once a year I take it apart and hose down the dome and wipe down the more sensitive components. Also, regular 13 gal flex/stretchy trash bags work great in the drawer, just takes a little practice and be sure to pat down the bag to keep it from triggering the “full” sensor.
This is icy cold/frozen comfort, but buy a litter robot. It is not that much more than you paid here if you find a refurbished one. I have had one for over a year. Worth every penny according to me and two of three cats (the third plays pitiful and dumb and kept her traditional litter box- I could have forced the issue but I didn’t have the heart).
That’s the plan.
I love our Litter Robot! We had 4 using it with no issue and NO odor!
I have 2 with 6 cats. Life saver for sure!
I like the litter robot, but learned the hard way that it isn’t as hands-off as I assumed. Mine needs to be checked at least daily to make sure it hasn’t gone into some strange mode and stopped cycling. Also, the litter pan fills up pretty quickly and even before it fills up, it will stop cycling because the litter piles up in one place. Cleaning it is also a big job. I still like it, but would give it 3 stars, not 5.
Hope you love the Litter Robot as much as we do. We use a lot less litter so I think it paid for itself.
I hope you paid by credit card? You can dispute it with the cc company. I am so sorry this happened. Thank you for the heads up. Appreciate the warning. Thanks for the Tuna in a tree video!
This is not proving to be successful because Kickstarter’s TOS make it an investment rather than a purchase. You can’t get money back on a failed investment.
Amuse your accountant, and write it off as a capital loss.
I’m trying to think of a good music pun for this, but I’m out of Tuna.
Omg ????
Do you know his scales?
Hmm, I wonder if my elderly kitties would use a litter robot. I had to buy low profile litter boxes because it is hard for one to climb into one with high side, she would poop outside the box. Are the expensive?
The one I bought was a refurbished model and it was $350 I think, so definitely pricey, but worth it in my opinion. We have three cats and they all now use that as their sole litter box. I do have to empty the drawer every third day, but I’d much rather do that than scoop all the time. I bought the little ramp to make it easy for our two senior kitties to get in and out. I also think they offer a 30-day guarantee if your kitty can’t/won’t use it. Worth looking into. Hope that helps! 🙂
You can get the stair add on for elderly cats. Please note they have a 5# min on cat weight. Cats must be 5# or more. I have 2 cats under that so I kept a traditional box for them.
My son purchased an item on Kickstarter for himself and as a gift for his sister. Items never showed (that was two years ago). He was asked to “invest” more as well. ????
We all get scammed some time. You do your best research and think it through but still there are people out there doing their best to get your money.
That is utterly frustrating. I once backed something for a GPS collar for cats. I thought it seemed awesome, and it indeed was. It however, only worked in Europe (as the creator was in Germany). I believe it was a kickstarter campaign. It launched and it was great…but I couldn’t use it. They were nice enough to refund me. I’m sorry your experience sucked. Sidenote – I too have a litter robot, and have for years. Despite how expensive they have become, they are utterly worth it. We have a 4 cat household and I can’t do without it. (You can also get them refurbished and they are slightly less expensive that way). Tuna looks supremely happy in that perch!
That is one awesome tree! And Tuna looks so happy! And nice weather!
Its an awful feeling to get ripped off. Kind of eats at you.
Never backed anything on Kickstarter and after reading this have no plans on doing so. Ever!
Wow Tuna is huge and gorgeous. I think she is definitely bigger than my puppy 🙂
She is about 20 lbs.
We had a small Sheltie dog and a rather large cat at the same time. Both were black and white with similar markings and the same size. Tuna reminds me of Snoopy, named after her curiosity. Long hair, huge. She was just a mutt type cat, not a special purebred, but was very similar to Maine coon cats. She was 3 feet from head to tail and about 25 pounds. Squirt, named due to habits early into house breaking (we were in grade school, so went with descriptive names) and Snoopy were friendly, and liked to play. At a distance unable to know who was chasing who, until Snoopy would become airborne and end up in a tree or on a fence.
Squirt was sweet dog, would herd the neighborhood kids with gentle nips, but harmless. She chased a rabbit and got it cornered. She did the play bow and was so disappointed when the rabbit refused to play. Snoopy on t h e other hand would bring home dead animals for my dad, rabbits, squirrel, etc., who dealt with the “gifts”.
Squirt was the only dog Snoopy tolerated. There was a black lab that used to wander through the neighborhood. The last time we saw him, Snoopy was riding his back. They went up and down the street, the dog yelping in pain until they came back to our yard where Snoopy dismounted. By that time, we had quite an audience. All the neighborhood kids and many adults who came to see what the fuss was about. I picked her up, bloody claws and all and she had the same look on her face that Tuna had, a queen looking at the stolid peasants.
I hadn’t thought about her in years. Thanks for bringing back the memories of a beloved cat.
I’ve backed some stuff on kickstarter, but it’s definitely easier to justify when the people running the kickstarter actually have a track record. Like, a new book/game/etc by people who have a history of releasing good games? Sure. XYZ random product by people you’ve never heard of? A bit more of a risk.
In the end, the blame on fraud goes on the one pulling the con…. sometimes, no matter how much research you do, or how credible the company presents, you can still get taken. There is a responsibility on Kickstarter’s part, to not allow a company who has repeatedly failed, and under questionable circumstances (asking for more money), to use their site anymore, to protect their clients/customers/investors. I’m sorry this happened to you.
The problem is that Kickstarter disavows any responsibility. They pretty much go out and tell you that you’re the idiot for backing a project and that they’re only the platform and have no responsibility to make sure you get your product.
Which is why Kickstarter has become a no-go for me…
Same. Been burned enough to say never again! It’s just not worth it!
*gets boots on, grabs sword, prepares to storm the Kickstarter headquarters
“ I don’t want you to go and bomb Kickstarter with this post”
Hmmm.
“ I mean it”
*deflates and puts sword away
Fiiiiine!
Hahahahahaha
Obviously a KD fan.
What gave me away? Was it the sword? Yeah, it was the sword….
Love Tuna. 🙂 For me it was Indiegogo and Nohbo and Ben Stern. A kid who was on the Shark Tank and got backing for his idea of shampoo in disposable packets while you shower. I backed him, never got the product, saw complaints of about the quality for those who did receive theirs. Many numerous emails over the course of several years, yep, I’m tenacious when hoodwinked. Anyhoo, had to go to the local BBB in Florida and finally received full refund. But the stories that guy try to use to justify not following through and ignoring my request, oy vey! Yep, he is still peddling it and keeps posting about product delays. I honestly don’t know how he is still in business.
Just an FYI, a lot of things on kickstarter are manufactured in China. I’ve seen more than a few kickstarters for dice where Chinese companies start pumping out ads for the exact same kind of dice as soon as the kickstarter is over. Often times the kickstarter is fulfilled, but knock offs are already out before the kickstarter is actually fulfilled. However, in this case it does sound very scammy since there is no communication. I am very very leery of kickstarters for any kind of tech. I’d rather just order things after they are on the market. I’d rather pay $500 for a Litter Robot then end up losing 200-300 on a kickstarter that may never go anywhere.
re lot of things on kickstarter being manufactured in China. It makes sense as they can often produce something at reduced costs. If you’re starting out production facilities can be hard to find. Obviously there is risk involved in producing something far away from your base but… I can see how legitimate companies will get their stuff made in China. The issue to me is more the company I think. Scams abound, super hard to avoid. bummer you got hit with it this time.
I finally got my SuperCalla charging cords last night, and that happened with them. Knock-offs abound. A friend actually ordered some of the knock-offs and when the “real” Super-Calla took so long, and now that she has both there are definitely quality differences-so at least we ended up with the better devices.
I’ve backed 4 things on kickstarter, 2 board games and 2 video games. Got one of each. The other of each died. To be honest, they weren’t scams, they were just investments that didn’t work out. I was bummed, but I didn’t go for (and would never go for) the higher/crazier tiers.
This sounds like an out and out scam, that KS should be refunding.
This may not be entirely relevant to this Kickstarter, as it does sound like these particular creators are not being responsible. That said, there are two other reasons, both entirely above-board on the part of the Kickstarter owner, why you may find, or seem to find, products for which a Kickstarter ran/is running appearing to be for sale elsewhere.
Reason #1 is outright fraud. There are dozens of reports of fraudulent vendors scraping photos off Kickstarter or Instagram and offering those products at a cut rate, using the creator’s own photos, often before the campaign has shipped its product. A lot of these ads are showing up on Facebook. If you order, and get anything, it will be cheap junk which doesn’t work/looks only kind of vaguely like the product advertised. At worst, your credit card number gets stolen.
Reason #2 is borderline legal (and may be closer to your situation.) A lot of products are on Kickstarter to raise funds to hire a factory, usually in China, to produce the items. In at least one case I know of recently, the creator had an agreement with a factory to produce her dice. Something went wrong, and she terminated the agreement with factory #1 – I think the dice were not up to her standards in some way – and the product was delayed while she came to an agreement with another factory, effectively starting the production timeline over. Meanwhile factory #1 chose not to destroy the molds they’d made for her, and went on happily producing dice using them and selling to other vendors. I could have bought those knock-offs on Alieexpress or Wish, months before the first items for the Kickstarter shipped.
Are they legal? Maybe. It depends on the fine print in their contract, and the copyright status of the font. I haven’t bought a set to compare to the ones I received eventually from the creator. But I can see how it would look, to someone who hasn’t been watching the whole saga, like she might just be marketing something that was already out there. I suspect this is not a unique situation – it just happens to be one I’ve watched play out over the past year or so.
I recommend the Cat Genie, It self empties and washes itself and the litter
So sorry this happened to you! I am also naturally skeptical of Kickstarter and the like. I figure, if it’s a good enough product, it will become commercially available, and not just through a questionable fundraising site with terrible terms of use. Good for you not sending them the extra money at least!
Then look at all the fraud that goes on “Go Fund Me”.
Hooboy….On a funny, laughing at myself note, I bought a ‘Donny and Bourke’ Disney bag on FB For 50.00….without reading the reviews. After a month I just took it as lesson learned, and goodbye to the money. 2 months later, the bag arrived! It’s pretty, and fell apart after 4 months…lol…sorry you had that experience.
I hope your fur baby isn’t like my neighbors. What goes up doesn’t always come down without the assistance of the fire department. 4 days in our oak tree
I’ve been in bankruptcy law for about ten years. Seven (ish?) years ago we filed for a guy who had a Kickstarter for a modification for clips on AR-15s. I’m fairly gun ignorant, so sorry if that doesn’t make much sense?
We had to list as creditors on his bankruptcy every single person who backed it in Kickstarter, his creditor list filled a three inch three ring binder, and overflowed into a second one. It was a NIGHTMARE. All of these people called our office madder than hell for months. Which, I get. But. Try not to scream at the paralegal and threaten to drive to my office with your guns??
All that to say you are not the first, and I hope you don’t beat yourself up too badly… And thank you for not storming Kickstarter, because it’s always us lowly peons that catch the brunt, not the guy on the top!
A scam targeted (Ilona, see what I did there) at AR-15 owners, especially those who feel the standard magazines need fixin, seems short-sighted. As you were involved in his defense, did it seem to you that he intended to defraud them or was he simply unable to provide what he promised?
A little bit of both. He had a business partner, and blamed it all on him. But they always do….
I think he had good intentions initially but quickly got in over his head. But. He did keep collecting people’s money after he knew he couldn’t deliver. The “scope” of the operation was beyond his “range”.
…. i see what you did there….
I’ve had good luck so far with Kickstarter, but I also made myself a rule that if I wasn’t willing to wave goodbye to that money forever, I’d better not be putting it on a Kickstarter pledge. Which isn’t to say that I wouldn’t try to get my money back if I were to truly be defrauded, as is the case in your situation; but it’s always a gamble. Even if I get what I paid for… will it be as cool as it seemed like it would be? (thus far my most disappointing Kickstarter I’ve backed and received was a board game. It’s beautiful, it looks fun to me, it’s science geeky… and nobody will play with me)
Mine was this flavoured cup. You drink plain water but you smell coca cola or orange etc, so your brain is tricked that you’re having an exciting drink- but no calories! Yeah, no. Disappointing, in the rubbish it went.
lmao. This made me think of scratch ‘n sniff stickers. Hope that wasn’t the extent of their efforts!
There are several items I’ve backed on Kickstarter, a few games, and a book. And to date I’ve only received two items of the lot. For the book, I’ve gone back and forth with the creator for years and still nothing. He quit responding to me. So, I have a strict no more Kickstarters rule. It’s too bad some people are just shameless.
My credit card refunded my money when I got caught up in a kickstarter scam ????
I’m sure you’ll read this a bazillion times (sorry) but just want to make sure its said.
Your money is typically protected if you used a credit card or even PayPal to process the transaction. You made the donation to Kickstarter with the understanding you would be getting a specific product and you did not receive it.
Dispute it with your card or your bank and you should be entitled to the funds back.
Ps I work at a bank and have several years of experience in the fraud division- not to mention my own personal shopaholic experiences with sketchy sites. If there’s anything I can do to help let me know.
I was scammed $60 on a phone charger bank. So I have decided not to order anything in the future unless it’s from a retailer I am familiar with and ordered from before
I’m sorry to hear that you lost at the Kickstarter casino. I gambled with my brother’s money and we also lost.
However, we did manage to pay for bi-monthly serial fiction that chronicles unlikely adventures / delays in creating and/or shipping the product.
Unfortunately, the original writing team appears to have quit. The updates for the last year have been pretty lackluster and unimaginative. I was hoping they might enjoy their work enough to continue even though no one is paying them anymore.
I love Tunas little tail flick and her head turning away! It‘s like: „Speak To The Tail!“ ????????????!
Greets from Switzerland
Inga
When my cats sits high in a tree and cries I think she is encouraging me to try climbing it as well. Then she cries at me which really translates into ridicule at my sloppy climbing skills.
Beware, Tuna might have the same plan.
I’ve only backed the one Kickstarter that I think was not completed yet after quite a few years, not because it was a scam but because the artist running it got completely bowled over by the success of the campaign and physically can’t draw any faster than he does ????♀️ I occasionally still get an update so I know he’s still working away at it because he is so conscientious, but I’m pretty sure that by now it’s cost him about three times the money he collected with it… So it’s almost more about me feeling guilty for causing him all this stress ????????
I think I backed the same guy. LOL
That sucks. I’ve gotten to the point I never back anything that involves electronics or moving parts. Either fraud or simply underestimating costs has done in too many. I’m also leery of any KS that has shipping included in the price. It’s a red flag that they don’t know how often that’ll gobble up their funds when there’s (surprise!) a shipping rate hike or their thing weighs more than expected.
I’ve become quite the internet cynic as a result. Oh well.
Tuna looks like they’re having a grand time up there.
Tuna in a Tree needs to be the name of an album or band. Lol. He is so fluffy!!! Sorry about the cat box scam. Hopefully you can get your money back soon.
yeah! they can have a hit single on the Cat Channel – “Tuna’s Revenge: Up You, Kickstarter!” 😀
As I recall, Tuna is a girl cat. At 20 pounds, she is a little bit larger than most female Maine Coons. (Which is what she obviously is.)
If she were male, she’d be at least 10 pounds heavier, possibly as much as 40 pounds of muscular tom cat.
Maine Coons are the Saint Bernards of cats. They are a bit larger to start with, but mostly they just keep growing. Often males keep growing until they are 3 years old.
Well if this is a clear case of fraud. FCC should be notified and your credit card company. The fraudsters might be using personal info as part of ID theft or selling info. I get tons of junk mail about male enhancements and Beautiful women when I fill out stuff on Facebook that I have email address specific for free info or Buy Now sites asking for an email address or newsletter sign ups.
Tuna is gorgeous. Sometimes you just take the chance in life. Sorry you got burned but glad everyone is okay. Thanks for sharing. Have fun watching all the twitteries in the tree, Tuna-cat!
Oh Tuna, you are so adorably you.
I am sorry about Kickstarter. this happened to me once a long time ago and since then, no more me investing like that. Lesson learned.
I do think this is pretty poor business practice of Kickstarter though
Damn! I’m sorry to hear that you, too, have become a victim of a fraudulent Kickstarter campaign.
In 2018, I and around 3600 other backers backed an automatic litter box called Petato (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/petato/footloose-next-gen-automatic-and-health-tracking-c/description).
To date, despite numerous attempts to contact the company, no one has received the litter box.
Instead, the company has gone MIA. They were selling the litter box on a Chinese sales site, Taobao, but it seems that they’ve gone bankrupt there, too.
Attempts to get Kickstarter to reimburse the backers always end in automatic replies with more or less the same tenor: “f…k off…”
Kickstarter disavows any responsibility. This is their reply to each and any attempt to get them to reimburse us:
“Support (Kickstarter)
Feb 25, 6:39 PM EST
Hi,
Thank you for following up with us about the status of this project. I’m sorry you’ve been experiencing these issues with communication.
We’ve reached out to the creator to remind them of their obligation to communicate with you and your fellow backers, and passed along your concerns. I’m as frustrated as you that you haven’t heard from the creator yet — it’s their responsibility to communicate and complete the project as promised.
Trust is integral part of that relationship between creators and backers. Although we are unable to offer refunds on projects, we are constantly working to improve the vetting process for creators and make sure Kickstarter is a beneficial place for both the creator and backer.
I really appreciate you sharing your experience — it will help grow and shape our community moving forward, a community I hope you’ll continue to be a member of in the future.
Thank you again and I hope this issue is resolved soon.
Best,
Kickstarter”
Best bet: get your charge reversed, immediately, if you still can. Talk to your bank about it. You will *not* get any help or reimbursement from Kickstarter, no matter how often you point out their own policies to them and how they and the creator are failing to live up to them.
I’ve reported Kickstarter to the Better Business Bureau. It won’t change anything, but maybe someone somewhere will finally wake up and get on Kickstarter’s case for their fraudulent business practices.
As for me, I will *never* back another project on Kickstarter unless I know the creator more or less personally. Except for that, Kickstarter has become a no-go for me.
I hope you get your money back! I’m sorry you had to go through that… ;__;
Thank you for the PSA! Makes me even more cognizant that platforms like GoFundMe and Kickstarter all need more research before any money parts with me. Scams are so real looking nowadays.
My sympathies about the scammers. Every now and again, even the wariest person slips. On the whole, my Kickstarter experience has been okay, though I don’t back a lot of projects.
I saw the “other product” on Amazon and was hopeful, but decided my Maine Coon was too big to use it comfortably. It’s too much money to buy on the off chance that one of the cats might like it.
Question – is “litter robot” similar to a “Cat Genie”? If so, I recommend it, though Tuna may be too large to use it easily. My two were okay, until Brandark grew too big and decided to start going elsewhere. Of course, his younger “cousin” Bahzell followed suit. If a regular box was available, forget the Cat Genie.
I still have it. Maybe I’ll find someone who needs it.
Love the names of your cats! ????
Nice to know someone else likes Weber’s Oath of Swords series. I applaud your eclectic taste in books!
My son-in-law screamed “You didn’t!” when he heard. My reply was “Look at those ears. What else could I do?”
Red harlequin is Brandark, all white is Bahzell. I got the personalities right, too. Brandark was too charming to believe…
Litter Robot spins perpendicularly and sifts the poop into a receptacle for emptying.
Cat Genie spins horizontally to sift out the poop, but it’s also connected to the toilet so it washes the “litter” and liquifys the poop to flush it in the toilet automatically.
Hi! I am a huge fan and my day job is drafting patents!
While this is probably a scam, information or lack of information about a patent is not at all useful in determining that. There’s several reasons why:
1. Filing patents is VERY expensive. It’s not affordable for most Kickstarter creators. The actual filing fees are several hundred dollars, plus fees each time an Examiner touches it, and that’s if you DIY, which is not recommended – a patent is only as good as its drafter. If you want a professional to draft it, the cost easily eclipses most Kickstarter funding goals.
2. Filing patents is not useful for most Kickstarter creators. Unless they have the money to pay a lawyer to sue someone who violates their patent or they have a solid plan to sell their invention to a big company, having a patent will not help them.
3. China barely even pretends to care about their own patents, let alone US patents. Even if this were patented, it would not prevent someone on Alibaba from copying it.
I understand that what you are saying might be true, but this doesn’t help me in any way. I want either the product or a refund, and it’s frustrating that the focus seems to have shifted from “Hey, these guys are demanding more money and not delivering” to “They might be a little Kickstarter company who is being taken advantage of by a Chinese supplier.”
My money is on it being a scam. It’s very unlikely that multiple sellers on Alibaba all somehow managed to get ahold of the specifications to make this thing before it’s even publicly available and then created their own versions and took their own photos. Especially since creating a Kickstarter to sell a thing that exists on Alibaba is a well-known and unfortunately common scam. I should probably add “search the product on Alibaba” to my own list of Kickstarter due diligence steps.
It is very frustrating. Unfortunately that just seems to be how it works with Kickstarter. You’re always taking a gamble, both that the person you’re backing is operating in good faith and that they are actually competent to deliver the thing they’re promising.
I’m not aware of any cases where even proven scammers on Kickstarter had to return the money – the best you can hope for is your credit card company reverses the charge, but if you’ve already tried that, you might be out of luck.
Hannah, on a completely unrelated note – you work drafting patents. That must be an amazingly interesting job. I am so curious now.
It is fascinating in some ways and very dry in others. I’d be happy to geek out about it with you! You’re welcome to email me if you’d like.
I usually tell people my job is translating technical gibberish into legal gibberish. Most of the patents I draft are for hardware or software. People tend to think of inventions as the lightbulb or the cotton gin, but in a lot of cases, they’re incremental improvements on existing technology. So think less, “I have invented anti-virus software” and more, “anti-virus software, but for your toaster.” (This was the first patent I ever drafted.)
Were they trying to protect the toaster from being an entry point into the smart home network? If so, I am so stealing this, because “they hacked his home through his toaster” is an awesome line.
Yup! I’ve worked on a slew of patents aimed at solving the problem of having wildly insecure smart home devices that can get infected and then infect all the devices you actually care about. I can talk about them now since they were long enough ago that they’ve seen been allowed and now anyone can find them on Google patent search. I try to work the phrase “malicious toaster” into as many of my patents as I can, in honor of that very first patent.
I bet IP law in the Hidden Legacy setting is just wild. I’m sure there’s an entire art unit at the Patent Office for each branch of magic. “No no, you see, ours is about animating trees for home defense. The cited art is clearly about animating shrubbery to finish landscaping projects more efficiently. That’s entirely different.”
I love the idea of animated defence trees!
Hannah this is such a hoot, I can’t wait to see it show up in HL! Thanks for the smiles.
Oh! If you can animate trees you can animate the toaster too and give a whole new meaning to “malicious toaster”! Thanks for cheering my day! This is why I love the BDH. Everyone is so interesting and nice.
Just imagine the toasters in Linus Duncan’s kitchen.
Heh.
This is so cool!
Love learning about this – thanks for sharing Hannah!
I can totally see IP law in Hidden Legacy. Hehehe.
As one of those techie people who likes the idea of smart devices but not the lack of security, Thank You! I’m really not sure I need a smart washer, oven, or dishwasher. So I wait for gadget creators to care about malicious toasters which could be set to toast for 10h and burn down my kitchen.
It’s like the entry point the ferrets took through the vents with no pressure sensors… maybe Bug or hacks through someone’s toaster.
First thing I thought of. Pressure sensors in dryer vents!
There was a casino recently that got hacked through their smart aquarium.
Hi Hannah I am an examiner and a huge IA fan too!
You are exactly right about so much and a great writer! You made our tedious world seem so much more exciting and relatable. Hmm how about a book about an examiner and drafter who team up to save the world from malicious toasters?? ????
Always nice to know there’s humans on the other side of the process! With how formal we all have to be on calls, you can forget sometimes, you know? Hopefully the examiners who read my patents enjoy the small jokes I manage to sneak in from time to time.
I’m down to save the world from malicious toasters!
Not my art (no conflicts) so would love to chat about IP & or IA ????
evil [underscore] toasters[at]yahoo
I’m so sorry you guys got scammed. Its hard to tell these days.
But Tuna looks absolutely regal and happy in the tree. Hope she got down ok.
I have backed two campaigns- one on indiegogo and one on kickstarter. The indiegogo was late, but eventually came and the company even replaced it when part of the stitching came apart. Kickstarter: I backed a bluetooth mic called hooke lav. The owner went and sold the company after getting the $$$ from kickstarter. We all got our money back after he promised refunds but the backer comments pointed out EVERY way he violated policies. After that experience, I cancelled something else I already backed. Kickstarter had too many loopholes to take the money and run.
Long story short. They may ask you for more money ONLY for shipping. That is not a violation of kickstarters policies. (They can also charge new backers more- if they are still taking pledges, check to see if they updated the shipping costs for the new pledge, if they didn’t that is reportable.) They cannot tack on an extra charge if they cannot be reached or do not provide updates. This link below outlines what to do if they are unresponsive and ghost the backer community and ask for more money.
I would think that if they want more for shipping and it is unreasonable, you should be able to cancel your pledge rather than pay the additional money. Until a platform has that policy, I won’t be pledging again. I hope Tuna gets her litter box or you get your $$$ back. ❤️https://help.kickstarter.com/hc/en-us/articles/115005126914-What-if-something-goes-wrong-after-a-project-is-successfully-funded-
Missed the update about them being contacted already. ????????♀️
Because you can’t get in touch with them and that is a violation of policy, use that as a reason to charge back with your bank. If Kickstarter can’t hold creators accountable for violating their own policies, then the banks can try to hold kickstarter accountable for allowing the fraud to continue.
Have a Kickstarter electric spinning wheel currently on a cargo ship arriving in Boston any day now. The designer/inventor has a FB page, Ravelry group and lots of videos describing the design process and asking for feedback. This project has been a pleasure to back. Would hate to lose the ability to back creative people like him in the future because of scammers. I hope Kickstarter gets it’s act together but in the meantime we all need to do our research. My son has the litter robot for his 3 indoor cats.
Maurice is awesome, I have one of his previous gen spinners and can’t wait for this one to arrive!
So very sorry about the ripoff
My very first kickstarter was backing a dude making an animated short film of Neil Gaiman’s Cat shortstory. I forget the name. Gaiman backed this. He made over 150k, maybe 200K?. That was….9 years ago? The guy still makes comments once a year that he is still working on it.
That cat kills me he’s so huge.
I had a similar issue with Indiegogo where I didn’t get the item I’d back at all! After 18 months of emails, phone calls, tweets and Facebook complaints I finally received a product that looked similar but not the same as what I’d backed.
Never trust the sites again!
Thank you for sharing. I pride myself on being the sort of person who doesn’t fall for scams, and I get the feeling you both do too. We all fall for one eventually, we do. For me it was one of those email things where I thought it was my boss’s boss and it wouldn’t be completely out of character for him to ask me to buy gift cards… luckily I caught on before money was spent. Embarrassing to be caught up in something at work. Made me look really dumb to the top brass. Ah well… as long as there are people there will be scammers. I don’t work there anymore but will always remember being the one who almost fell for that one.
Call me crazy, but the most exciting thing about this post for me was that I got to hear a lovely Russian accent! I have wondered about accents… My dad came to the US for college from Ghana, and his Ghanian accent remains strong at 80+ years of age. I did the same thing my dad did at same age, and unless I’m mad you won’t know I grew up in Ghana from my accent.
Sorry you got scammed though. Happens to the best of us.
We live and learn. I can’t say I enjoy cleaning the litter box either. My two aren’t very fussy and are happy with a once a week cleaning. I put the litter box into a large clear tote and fill the box up with lots of litter. They can sling litter all over and it’s still inside the tote. I just take the box out and tip the tote over and dump the litter back into the litter box. I use Dr. Elsey litter and it’s the best I’ve found, no dust and liquids set up which makes for easy sifting.
Has anyone tried Kumihimo? I just picked up a starter set and looking forward to using it. I thought it might be something I can take to work and do something useful when I’m not busy. Once they start calling bingo I don’t have much to do.
I’ve done kumihimo – mainly to teach my grandkids. Would rather knit, myself. Here’s a tip site with many, many tips, including how to figure out where you stopped when you have forgotten. Scroll down for that one. The author seems to work mainly with beads on cords, so the first tips are all about how to do kumihimo with beads
https://www.whatabraid.com/pages/kumihimo-tips-hints
I picked it up about 2 years ago 2 looms and a few kits for making necklaces. Made two necklaces which were well received as Christmas gifts. Once you learn, it’s pretty easy and doesn’t require much attention…lots of searchable patterns. I’m doing one using embroidery floss and beads now. Local craft store has decent supply of cord, but I find i prefer cotton embroidery floss (ie DMC). I’m going to try some pearl crochet thread left over from another project and see how that turns out.