I hate to be a pedantic bore (no, actually I love it) but it is theoretically possible to set up life based on carbon, hydrogen, and oxygen, but where liquid methane substitutes for water.
M in the comments
M’s survival instincts are misfiring.
Let’s be pedantic. We haven’t told you anything except that there is methane and electrified sand, and the carbon-based life is not welcome. M has no idea if there is silicon based life thriving on this planet or if a planet-wide energy based sapient bioweb encircles it, projecting its consciousness into space, or what have you, because we haven’t told you anything about it. Yet M took the time to correct us and he relished it. He really loves being a pedant.
I was going to let all those comments quietly disappear, but this one got me, because I can’t let this misunderstanding of chemistry go. I am going to assume that M is basing that weirdo statement above on Titan of our lovely solar system, which has methane and nitrogen atmosphere and liquid methane seas.
For life as we know it to exist even in its most primitive form, there must be a membrane, a boundary that defines the inner space of the organism and separates it from the environment. Here it is, courtesy of Encyclopedia Britannica.
The cell membrane has two functions: to protect things inside and to allow nutrients to enter and waste products to exit. Our membranes are made mostly of phospholipids and sterols (mostly cholesterol.)
Do you see that O in the formula? That’s oxygen. The P stand for phosphorus, also a very helpful element. The lipid molecules are polarized, which is what makes them “stick” together.
What does that mean? Imagine a sewing pin.
This is our phospholipid molecule. We’ve discussed before that water is sticky because its molecule is polarized. The head of the our “pin” is also sticky. It’s polar and likes water. The long end (there are 2 of them per each head) is hydrophobic and doesn’t like water.
If you drop oil into water, it will quickly form a round drop. These guys function the same way. You drop them in water and they right away will arrange themselves into a sphere with the heads pointing toward water and tails pointing inside our little ball. And because we still have water inside the ball, they make a second layer that’s a mirror of the first one. This forms a barrier that’s surprisingly resilient and flexible.
M, for the record, the planet is not Titan, but if it were Titan with its liquid methane seas, we would still need this lipid membrane. However, there is a big problem with that.
Phosphorus and oxygen, found in Earth cell membranes, don’t exist in Titan’s frigid methane oceans, so any cell-like membranes would have to be based on nitrogen, hydrogen and carbon, all of which are abundant on Titan.
NASA
NASA stipulated that life on Titan, if it were to exist, is methane-based and oxygen-free. It would be based on nitrogen, hydrogen, and carbon, because there is no oxygen or phosphorus in Titan’s methane seas. There might be water under the liquid methane, but that’s a whole different story.
So, no, you can’t “set up life based on carbon, hydrogen, and oxygen, but where liquid methane substitutes for water.” Because there is no phosphorus or oxygen, you can’t have a lipid membrane.
But what if there is magic oxygen that we miraculously pulled out of our butt and stuck into other elements available on Titan?
Okay, if you have carbon, hydrogen, and oxygen, and you wanted to make a lipid molecule, you could make a fatty acid. It’s nonpolar, so it won’t work. You could make cholesterol, which is again largely nonpolar. (No, we are not going to be discussing hydroxyl groups. We are keeping it simple.) You need phosphorus-oxygen combo for that polarity.
Even if you somehow – and I don’t know how – made a magically polar lipid molecule out of carbon, hydrogen, and oxygen, it still wouldn’t work. Why? Because methane liquefies at -260°F. The surface of Titan is a brisk -292 degrees Fahrenheit.
However, the phospholipid membranes, which are so strong and elastic in water, do not perform as well in liquid methane. The nonpolar tails of phospholipids would seem to be compatible with nonpolar liquid methane, and the polar heads with each other; does this suggest that an inverse membrane to those formed in water could exist in methane? Unfortunately not; this phospholipid hypothesis neglects the fact that the tails of phospholipids are long-chain hydrocarbons, which will be rigid at cryogenic temperatures. Furthermore, the phospholipid head component atoms, oxygen and phosphorus, are not available in any form in the methane seas of Titan and presumably not in any similar liquid methane environment. Inverted-phase liposomes are therefore not a viable option. The idea of using polarity to prevent dissolution, however, is valid if any suitable materials exist.
Membrane alternatives in worlds without oxygen: Creation of an azotosome
Translation: it is too cold. The membrane has to be flexible and at this temperature our poor lipids float there, stiff as a nail, and refuse to stick together. So our trio of C, H, and O is right out.
We have to search for alternatives to lipids. You can theoretically set up a life-enabling membrane based on vinyl cyanide, which looks like this.
It is theorized that vinyl cyanide could form a spherical membrane in a methane sea. We don’t know if it happens. We only know that it could happen.
Now then, we posted a teaser for Innkeeper, and ModR had to trash 10 comments. We haven’t even started. There is literally no fiction up. I am sure that M was excited to share his understanding of methane-based life, but by comment #10, I am done.
Our blog policy is that any person who offers corrections without listing their credentials will have said corrections removed without explanation. If you are correcting something we wrote about Houston, you should live there. If you are correcting something a Mancunian says, you better be one. If you are not an expert, please cite your references. Otherwise, you are spreading misinformation, which we have to refute or which will create a long comment thread and lead to fights. If you see something in error of fact (not a typo) in the narrative, please email us using the contact form.
Most of BDH really enjoyed the teaser, so this bottom part is addressed to those who, like M, relish being pedantic and decided to nitpick 3 sentences (WTF) in the previous post. You have to decide if you are going to be “helpful” or if you want to read Innkeeper in a serial form. No person alive can write in a toxic atmosphere – and it’s not methane this time – that so many “helpful corrections” create. Especially since half of the time, as M’s comment above demonstrates, they are in error.
Gordon has not seen this post yet, because his fuse is short when it comes to Innkeeper corrections. He is not a fan of serialization, because some people tend to get obsessive and abusive. I hope that by the end of August we will all be on the same page regarding Innkeeper’s availability.
Please do not trash each other in the comments. I have an ER scene to write in Ruby Fever because important people are very hurt, and I have told Mod R to exercise extreme prejudice. 😀
Katie says
I love science!
Leigh says
Your pedantification is amazing. You are amazing. Full stop. This is why IA books are just so professionally scripted. Thank you.
JP says
Can’t wait for Ruby Fever!!
Amanda says
I’ve never understood troll-like behavior, particularly towards authors they claim to like and want to see more work from. What can be more demoralizing and counter-productive to the creative process writing requires than such negativity? There’s a place for constructive literary criticism, but it certainly isn’t a few throw away lines from some unknown stranger on a blog, especially when responding to free fiction! I love books and snippets whether free or paid works and I’m so sorry you have to deal with trolls telling you what to write or have a passive aggressive comment for every line. I’ve loved your books for years and want to send another shout out to Mod R for keeping the haters out and hope you all keep wanting to write for years to come!
pete says
OK, that was a cool post! You lost me in the chemistry. But the basic point that life is believed to require separation, meaning a cell wall, fascinating.
The post was a bit like when you’re at a science fiction convention and you go to a panel where actual space scientists explain how something like asteroid mining would work with today’s technology. Even more so, as somebody in that room with no advanced training will definitely stick their oar in. Leading a physicist to say something like, “Sure, you could do that if you had some way to cancel angular momentum.”
Holly E Corin says
Preach sistah! We love Innkeeper and all the teasers!
WENDY m HASBARGEN says
I love the Mod R portrait! Is it bad that I enjoyed this post? Thank you for continuing to write. I have enjoyed all of the series you write. (I am fairly certain I own all of them.)
Samatha says
Ooooh Getting “tips from the ER” flashes.
@steveioe on tiktok. If you need a chuckle.
Xinyi says
ModR rocks! As does House Andrews! Your patience with the BDH is always appreciated. As is your creativity and genius. Ignore the haters and the pedants. The rest of us BDH adore your work and live for when House Andrews bestows their latest creative genius upon us mere mortals.
“I have an ER scene to write in Ruby Fever because important people are very hurt” OMG!!!! Cannot wait for Ruby Fever… hope none of my favourite characters die…
Ove T says
Don’t get the “I’m getting a peek at the story for free, so I’ve gotta nitpick and make negative remarks about it for no reason”-crowd ? Heck, I’ve been following many of the stories that have been on here (I arrived because of Innkeeper !). I like the stories and the action. Since I’m not writing the stories I can’t critique the twists and turns, I can make my own stories/books (in theory…!!!) and do with them as I please, but for the love of Grapthars Hammer – why would you yap about something you get a sneak peek at for free ???
I hope these nincompoops can shut up – I wanna enjoy my sneak peeks in peace and have happy writers that put out more of them !
Lovely portrait of Mod R btw, is probably very useful to have a large stabby-slashy implement to mod comments
Elba =) says
I love you guys!
That’s it, that’s all I got…xoxo
Christine says
Coming to this on a Monday morning…. I think those sewing pins look like cake pops (with a mirror glaze) and now I’m hungry for something sweet. ????
Love your books and also think that Mod R rocks!
Susan says
I trust your research. Clearly, you do it impeccably. I did not realize how in depth your science research goes. I love science. I was able to follow that, almost. Not because of your teaching, but because, I will have to go over it again to stretch my brain cells to understand, lol. Thank-You! Knowledge is power.
Daphne says
Mic drop????
I appreciate all of your writing .Never understood what makes people want to be rude when you all give so much.
Super excited for RF, Innkeeper and anything else you guys dream up and create. Thank you!
Rache says
I love how much random stuff I learn from your blog. While it was born of a frusterating comment, this post was absolutely fascinating, thank-you!
MacGrani says
A clear and concise science lesson! I love it! Thank you for giving this old granny more knowledge!
I have purchased all your books, short stories and anthologies. The worlds you all create are amazing. All are worth revisiting! I love being a member of the BDH – my philosophy is simple: you write & publish and I will purchase, read and reread.
ModR you totally rock. Have you ever tried Norwegian Chocolate? It’s divine! But, do not let my #6 granddaughter see your outfit she’ll want one for sure!
Rebecca says
Love the outfit. Would be nice for a party.
Michelle says
Thank you for moderating. This is the only blog I enjoy reading. The discourtesy and snark on unmoderated sites turns my stomach.
Barbara Kay Swanson says
You are a queen. Thank you.
Jennifer says
As a chemist I absolutely love your explanations here ???? it makes me miss my undergrad lectures in biochem
sandra scott says
All Hail Mod R.
Let it be known far and wide the Author Gods have spoken.
RESPECT.
Simone says
This is too funny. I mean we are reading a book with vimpires, werewolves and intelligent houses in it. It’s ll fine and dandy. Let’s get sticky about some random planet and its electrified sand.
It’s fiction, people, who cares about chemistry if it fun and enjoyable read?
Jessica says
Thank you Mod R for all your work! Without you, I know serialized Innkeeper would not be possible!
Moderator R says
You’re very sweet, but the magic is all House Andrews. ????
There have been 4 Inkeepe serials so far and I’ve only been here since January so haven’t yet been through the process. Hehe fingers crossed for all of us!
Yolie says
Whatever it takes to have a happy non-toxic environment for my favorite authors I am solidly in favor of creating. Delete comments by the dozens, including mine, as long as I get more Innkeeper. I have no shame. Best regards,
Yolie
Ericka says
Why do people have to be like *waves arms vaguely* this?
I’m sorry. And thank you for pushing through the pedantic.
Last year, I spent the year clenching my teeth and repeating, “2021. 2021. 2021. I can make it.” So far, 2021’s response has been, “oh yeah? Hold my beer.” And now I’m repeating “2022. 2022. 2022. I can make it.”
Your stories offer an escape when this reality gets to be too much, and – with all due melodrama – they’ve seriously been a lifeline over the past 10,000 months.
You are so appreciated.
Melody S. says
My high school chemistry teacher would be so proud that I wished I paid attention in class so I could understand my favorite author’s blog post.
Not gonna lie my understanding is about 40%, but I appreciate the translation that it’s too cold.
I’m sad and hope they don’t take Innkeeper’s serial away from the rest of us who enjoy it. ????