If you are wondering why we are revisiting this: some questions were raised in the chat during our last zoom when we discussed the publishing plans for our next project
If you self-published a book, is there any case where the publisher will pay for a self-published book and promote it more?
There are several cases when the publisher made an offer for a self-published book after it was released. Andy Weir’s The Martian was self-published and then picked up by Random House. The Ice Planet Barbarians by Ruby Dixon was picked up by Berkley.
All such books share something in common – they were all bestsellers. The publishers became aware of them because of their popularity. They didn’t have to do any marketing. They simply cut a big check and bought the rights.
If you recall the DOJ trial:
DOJvPRH Day 3: Karp says many authors of books with big advances hire their own publicists, etc., because they can afford to. He cites Colleen Hoover as an example of an author who “does not take up most of S&S’s resources” because “she’s the queen of TikTok” and doesn’t need to
— John Maher (@JohnHMaher) August 3, 2022
You’ve heard it from the horse’s mouth: publishers really do want to take as much advantage of the author as they can while doing as little as financially possible to assure the book’s success.
Is a publisher likely to purchase a self-published bestseller? Yes. Will they throw serious money into promoting it? Unlikely.
So is the only downside with self-publishing the fact that it is more work for you guys to do the release and marketing etc?
The Upside:
It’s more money. In the traditional scenario, we would get to keep 25% of the earnings minus the agent’s cut. In the self-published scenario, we get to keep 70% of the earnings minus the agent’s cut.
It’s more control over the actual book: the cover, the formatting, the length – I can hear BDH going “Woo!”; however, some books do benefit from being edited for length.
The Downside:
Print. This is it. This is the main downside.
Self publishing is more work, but we don’t mind that. The problem is print. POD books are expensive. We make about $1 off the print editions, because we are trying to keep the prices as low as we can. Right now, Ingram Spark print editions are on back order. It’s hard on the existing audience, and it’s also hard to convince someone new to shell out that much money for a new to them book.
And POD books are not stocked by big chains, so you will not find Magic Claims at BN or Target. This contributes to lack of discoverability, which is the second drawback. To have a thriving career, we need to keep expanding our audience. Having a presence in stores used to go a long way toward facilitating the audience growth. Right now, I am not sure how to acquire new readers. When I figure it out, I will let you know.
While we are on the subject, thank you to everyone who pressures friends and family into reading us! Your BDH recruitment efforts are much appreciated.
💙 the BDH is a welcoming hourde – we have cookies!
And tea. And yarn. Especially yarn. Even if you don’t know how to make anything with it. Cats love yarn and I’ve never seen one crochet.
BDH recruitment is one of my favorite things. My mom and I now have release party phone dates!
The graphic audio helped me snare my husband – self proclaimed “non-fiction only” reader during our long car trips!
BDH recruitment is so much fun because you are amazing authors, and also so nice to your readers and fans! I have convinced so many fellow Filipino readers to read your books, and they always end up loving your titles ❤️
Yes, I found my first Ilona Andrews book printed in a bookstore. I love browsing in real stores.
“How to acquire new readers…”
The BDH taking that as a challenge and handing out pamphlets to interest people to TRY THIS SERIES!!!
I even pressured my therapist! We are a loyal lot.
I used to find new authors by browsing physical books in bookstores, but now I find them via websites like smartbitchestrashybooks.com and authors recommending other authors in their newsletters and blogs. I also check out electronic books from my local library. I wonder if you could recruit new members of the BDH by doing virtual events at libraries and donating a few ebooks and audiobooks to that library as part of the event.
House Andrews often do library events! They had one yesterday with Nalini Singh at Ashland library, as a matter of fact! 🙂
Most of House Andrews’ books (self and traditionally published) are on Overdrive 🙂
Regarding discoverability:
What about table sharing at conventions with authors you’re friends with? Not necessarily that you’re attending the convention, but that they carry a few copies of your print books to sell (or display a flyer with a QR link to your booklist with purchase links). Another author I follow who self-publishes is discussing doing this with other authors/publishers he supports.
it can also be harder to have self-published books added to OverDrive which is the platform public libraries use to circulate ebooks and downloads audio. They can be a major buyer and promoter of authors.
they’re already in Hoopla, Overdrive/Libby/Kobo. and promote in libraries, yay!
On discovering new authors- I have discovered many new to me authors through anthologies- I know you have contributed to a few?
As a loyal member of the BDH, thank you for your wonderful books, and the fact that I can easily purchase them via Kindle in South Africa. Many authors are published via traditional publishers who block sales to South Africa- this is incredibly frustrating when you see they have new books and you can’t buy.
I found House Andrews through Questionable Content in Dark and Stormy Knights edited by P.N. Elrod. great starting point! 😂
+++1 for anthologies!
Also libraries and the inter-library loan system. (So many books, so little house space!)
I’ve gotten a lot of good author recommendations from this blog from Ilona and my fellow BDH. (Side note: Thank you to whomever suggested T.A. White. I re-read her stuff a LOT.)
On Amazon, when you went to an author’s page, they suggest other authors who are similar. I’m not seeing that when I go to Ilona Andrews, so either they removed that feature, or it’s because I’m logged in as a guest who isn’t “following” IA. Hopefully they haven’t removed that feature, because I found several authors that way.
I honestly do my best to throw y’all’s books into the comments of popular booktok book reviewers!!
Pressure sounds so sinister. We merely “strongly recommend.”
I ordered my book in May and I still see that it is not tracking on my amazon account….I purchased the kindle digital version finally. First time amazon has screwed up like this. I was so waiting for this book….all 80 and 6 months of me.
Hi Kay,
I’m so sorry to hear you’re affected by the delays- you are not the only one!
Our advice is to cancel your current order and reorder from this link https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0C4ZJSJTL
There were 2 printers this time around selling on Amazon- one of them, Ingram Sparks, has delivery issues at the moment. For more details, please see here https://ilona-andrews.com/blog/print-availability-of-magic-claims/
Author lists are good. I find most of my new to me authored books via “if you like X, you will like Y, so check out Y”
so if you can get all your author friends on a “list” and all authors promote that same list on social medias (and I would say Reddit urban fantasy, but Reddit is a sh*tshow right now) the list will likely get picked up by traditional media.
everyone on the list can stagger list promotion to every two weeks so it’s always making the rounds. and making sure author friends promote your new book as “if you like me, you’ll like House Andrews!” and then you do the same when they have a new book.
doesn’t cost much but time, and you have a captive audience that’s already reading fantasy (and often urban fantasy).
just an idea!
alternatively/additionally you make the list of authors and give the article to BDH (while other authors give to their hordes, like Faith Hunters Beast Claws Street Team) and let them promote at will.
I also like using “if you like” lists though sometimes I’m left scratching my head in bewilderment at how some authors are supposedly similar 😁
Goodreads, reddit and other online forums are good too and I used to get lots of good recommendations from Locus magazine.
I’m a librarian and I work for a book vendor that sells books to libraries. As member of the horde, I make sure to add the POD titles to recommendation lists because they are excellent and everyone should read them. I know our company has the POD titles available for library purchases (though I can’t speak for other vendors), so if you’d like your local library to add it to their collection and make it more discoverable that way, I would suggest the horde makes purchase requests at their local branch 🙂
Your books are always mentioned in any book recommendation thread I see on the internet. I always plan to but I usually only get to second or third or seventeenth the rec after others beat me to it.
I should add that I didn’t find you via a bookstore. That used to be the way I found books but as my list of chronic illnesses grew I turned to e-books. I got hooked via the story about Kate and Saiman. Story collections have led me to other authors as well. It’s a great way to introduce people to a series without their having to buy the first book on spec. Hooking them on the characters works. I wanted to know more about Kate.
I wonder how many workers at Audible started playing the Magic Claims book after the whole pirating episode, since they all knew the name of the book after the BDH was done with them.
😂
I found Patricia Briggs in the library around 2018. After looking her up, I found you as one of the suggestions for other authors I may like. I think my first IA book was the 2nd Legacy and imagine my delight in finding that you had another series with many books already written. I had to find and read them all. I read at least 25 IA books over the next 1- 1/2 years, although some were read more than once. (I know the number read because I checked them out from the library before I eventually purchased all of them.) For a glorious period I was able to read IA book after IA book.
I discovered Iron and Magic /House Andrews while randomly browsing at my local Chapters,I live in Canada. Read it, loved it, had to track down Magic Triumphs. Next came the entire Kate Daniels series, and yes I read it backwards!!! I now own ALL THE SERIES.
The point I am trying to make is that I would have never discovered HA if you only self-published!!
I was lucky to get my hands on Magic Claims at my library while I was waiting for my printed copy from Amazon. I have read it now on Libby and hard copy and will probably reread the entire series at the end of the summer. I brings me mych needed joy. The character and storyline development impresses me every single read.
BTW, I am team ship Arabella and Mihail. Their first meeting was that of equals, Mihail is in the position to understand Arabella on a level I don’t think Michael would be able to. But I will wait, “patiently” 😉
I am an Audio fanatic because of slow reading (cataracts). I set a goal of 20 books per month and thanks to my Audible subscription, a couple of Ebook newsletters with deals, and a fabulous county library system, I’ve met it for the last 6 months.
I’m saying this because many of the authors I regularly spend money and credits on were new to me last year. I found them on Hoopla and Audible and Chirp as free with my subscription, or at a reduced rate to try them. 3 of these authors have taken me on as an ARC reader
and to catch the last of the typos before publishing. I didn’t know any of them before last year. I used up half of my Audible credits on one of these “New-to-me” authors.
So the monkey fist to get new readers really works!
BTW, The Wilmington books were a real delight and I would love it if the next one was a full novel. I can’t wait!
I also wonder if “The Bear” can defect or somehow denounce the Russian government’s politics to get you out of that particular painted corner of Legacy.
I share my love of the Innkeeper Chronicles, Hidden Legacy and Kate Daniels with anyone who will listen. So the BDH is helping a bit with word of mouth but it sounds like the BDH needs to get on tiktok and share the love.
I know not as many people use facebook anymore. But I usually look at facebook ads for books and pick them up.
The other option for getting new readers is having books available at the library (ebook or audio is fine). I have several library apps and will happily try new authors because they are available to me through the library.
The library option you already have, so … I guess this would more be for newer authors.
I buy used/new HA books(bcse I keep mine) lol. And then I place them all over in the little free libraries in different neighborhoods. I’m a mailman so I do come across alot of them🤷🏽♀️
Brilliant!
I hooked my boss on the Hidden Legacy series. Just doing my part. 😉
I know you mentioned it in the zoom thing, but I do think if you want to target that younger generation (young millennial, gen z and whatever is after), the online marketing is the way to go. Such as tiktok or instagram. You find book people with many followers and give them your book to read. Anyone who has ever read your books will recommend them. I have read several books based on those recommendations and none are as good as HA books. Even the SJ Mass books weren’t as good (ducks for cover yelling BDH forever!). I collect books so the price doesn’t matter to me and I will buy the physical copy anyways. However, I think a lot of people are in the digital world now, so as long as your self published stuff is digital and reaches the libraries, and major sellers, you likely have majority of it covered.
There’s a review of Magic Claims up on Dear Author as a Recommended Read.
https://dearauthor.com/book-reviews/overall-a-reviews/review-magic-claims-kate-daniels-wilmington-years-2-by-ilona-andrews/
Thank you so much for sharing, Sandra! 🤗
If I can convince a total stranger, whose book tastes I do not know, to read just one of your books, which one should it be? Statistically speaking, which one would be most likely to draw in a new member of the BDH? I am a bit of an outlier, so I can’t count on my own tastes to guide me.
This question is not entirely just to your benefit. I am often reading paperbacks in public and I am a chatter, so this topic comes up. I genuinely want to recommend a book people will like.
I’m majoring in statistics at university, and I can tell you that without all the sales data, statistics won’t answer your question! Literatur and sociology might have better answers.
My personal opinion is that either hidden legacy or innkeeper are good entry points. They have interesting characters and plot lines, especially innkeeper is quite different, and most people would like to live in a house that can change to their liking, or have magic powers.
Also they don’t leave you felling traumatized or anxious, which is important for me.
I love KD and the edge, but I have to admit that understanding the first KD book was a bit hard for my non English brain.
Yes, that’s kind of why of was asking. They have all the sales data! Innkeeper is what sucked me in, and then the writing is so brilliant I read it all, even KD and world which wouldn’t usually be my thing.
Sometimes it’s obvious what to recommend, I can tell if someone would rather have something closer to a romance series, or the gentle fantasy, or the swashbuckling fantasy adventure. But sometimes I just can’t tell and those are the times it would be helpful to know what sells the best.
A lot of things complicate this answer, such as the fact that House Andrews’ career spans 16 years- total sales might not directly mirror current tastes or trends.
They have also been both traditionally published and self published, and those are two veeeery different marketing and publicity budgets, in terms of outreach.
Kate Daniels’ world also has more books than all the other series put together (if you count spin offs and novellas), so that’s another hurdle for pure stats.
Thank you for walking me through what should have been obvious to me. I’ll just have to stick with my best-guess strategy. 🙂
The sales numbers are not a good indicator. Magic Claims sold very well, but you probably need to be a Kate fan to fully get into it. Just recommend whatever feels right. 🙂
I used to spend a lot of time hanging in bookstores. That’s where I found my love of fantasy and science fiction. ( found Dune when I was 17 or 18 and a whole new world was opened up to me) I wondered how “kids today” would find new books. Then during the pandemic I found Booktube, you know You Tube for reviewing books. I suppose the BDH could start inundating several of those channels with requests for reviews of your books?
I got turned on to Kate Daniels by the goth make-up clerk at my local Walgreens.
I use Bookbub, which is free to readers, but costs authors and publishers. I’ve seen a number of HA titles there. They also own Chirp. I believe most of Bookbub’s users are older (50s+), so not the best place for younger readers.
I also use Early Bird, but mainly for good deals on older mystery writers (1970s and earlier), and non-fiction. You can get great deals on academic and university press books, especially history titles. They also do some publishing, mostly out of copyright classics.
I read The Mary Sue ( http://themarysue.com ). They do book reviews pretty regularly. It skews a lot younger than Bookbub.
Besides checking smexybooks.com every day (they tend to feature 3 books on sale, usually of authors new to me), I mainly find new books:
1) Directly on iPad’s Kindle app on the “Home” tab under “Explore.” They suggest books based on my reading habits and books I’ve just read, so I tend to check their recommendations out.
2) The ribbon of suggested books on Amazon when I’m looking at a book. Since it looks like it’s based on the book I’m checking out, I figure I might find something related that’s interesting or better.
(On Amazon I check out the suggested books that are sponsored too — I know it’s a paid ad but it shouldn’t show up unless it’s vaguely what I might be interested in, so I give it a chance.)
I take my kindle to work and have given author names to a few of our customers and anyone else I chat with. Any serious reader gets suggestions and I pass on the sale and free book sites as a good way to backfill old series or find new authors to try. Unless it’s large print/hardcover I don’t read many books from the library anymore as paperbacks really stress my eyes. I really enjoy the tips on authors and websites the BDH mention here, never enough books in the TBR pile!
speaking of traditional publishing outreach – just saw that Avon is releasing a TRADE PAPERBACK version of Burn for Me in March 2024 with cover art TBD????
Yes, new covers are coming ☺️
Regarding attracting new readers: I don’t know how one gets into this queue, but Amazon picks up the occasional book and pushes it at me at least until I check it out and usually until I buy it (often even after that). I will eventually check something out if it’s pushed in every. single. email. and screen. These books are almost always self-published (I say almost because I haven’t yet seen one that isn’t, but I don’t know for sure that it’s 100%). Caveat: they are Kindle Unlimited about half the time.
I’ll also say that there are a handful of authors I read who have never NOT been self-published. And I mean fewer than 5. In every case, I wish they had an editor. To the point that although I enjoy these authors, I’m not looking to discover new ones that will have me saying in frustration that “this pretty ok book would have been TERRIFIC with an editor.” And so now I look to see who the publisher is.
I’m just one person, but I’m part of a demographic. One who is easily sold by persistence (I don’t think my persnickety reading is common enough to be part of a larger audience). So maybe there’s a way to become one of those books Amazon pushes and pushes and pushes.
Maybe you could acquire new readers by working with other authors (those you have a good relationship with) and adding “tasters” of your books at the end of their book and vice verse. I didn’t know the “Edge” series until I read a chapter at the end of another book. Probably only an option with Kindle but it would encourage readers for both authors….
Have the IA team explored having a bigger presence on Reddit. I’ve completely left Twitter and Facebook has been inactive for years, but I’m on Reddit all the time. Just using the r/eBookDeals to advertise when one of the books go on sale might expand your audience. I’m not sure how that sub works, but it’s been helpful to me.
FYI – I love most of the series but just never got into KD although I read books 1 and 2. I have bought Magic Tides and am halfway thru – love it so I’ll be getting the new one as well.
“Right now, I am not sure how to acquire new readers. When I figure it out, I will let you know.”
This got me thinking about how I find new writers. Everyone’s mileage may vary, but maybe it would help to know how we find new writers.
– Amazon referrals are crap. They are too broad, and Amazon is only trying to sell books (Duh). Don’t bother.
– Library referrals are gold. I find a book I really like, check to see if it is on anyone’s referral list, then check out the other books in the list. I’ve found some wonderful books this way.
– For Science Fiction, Mysteries, and Romance: I check which books were nominated or won a Hugo, Edgar, or RWA award. I haven’t really found an award I agree with for Fantasy. Nebula awards seem to lean strongly toward science fiction.
Hope this helps
What is this fabled libary research books? Is is a USA only thingy? Very intrigued
For new to me author searches, I find new gems by Amazon recommends as I am browsing a similar author, Facebook ads, Anthologies, Bookbubs, other Author/fan pages that suggest other great reads (yes, TY Ilona, I now have all the J. Frosts!), and now TicTok. Especially if it’s an entertaining and funny TicTok. (In my 50s) I think the Innkeeper webcomic and Graphic Audio will reel on some new KD fans :))
Conversation with my friend Misty on a Monday morning at work (Misty knew that I love to read and she was asking for book recs for her daughter):
Me: I really love the Kate Daniels series by Ilona Andrews. The first book is Magic Bites and it is good but it is my least favorite of the series.
Misty (on Monday): I will tell her that! I may give them a try, too.
Misty (on Wednesday): I have a bone to pick with you! I am already on BOOK THREE of the Kate books! I have a JOB, I have a HUSBAND, and I have to sleep SOMETIME!
Me: You know, Ilona Andrews has more than one great series once you finish the Kate books…
Hehehe. The Horde doesn’t take up THAT much time 😂 and we welcome our new members!
What about participating in anthologies with short stories? Are they an option when you self-publish? I know you have done so in the past because that is how I found the Kate Daniels series. I was seeking out a short story from another series I was reading at the time and the Andrea Hellhound story was included. Of course, I was hooked after that.
As a young person Ill find new books by new authors by short video that tells it funny in a non back to the book way (insta,tik tok yt shorts). As I write this I realize that it is extra hooking if its a manwha (visuals yay!) and has funny expresions.