Today’s question comes from Mod R.
How do you not end up with this when you’re working on a project?
Hehehe, FinalFinalDraftDamnIt.docx. Mod R has, by now, seen us drastically chop the manuscripts. I’ve been torturing her with Maggie drafts, and she has read 2 or 3 so far, so now I’m holding off until it’s done before I inflict any more damage on her.
So what does a working draft folder look like?
There are 2 folders titled Reference and Languages and 4 files: Bag of Money, Cuts, Dutch Names, and Old Bag of Money.
Bag of Money is the primary manuscript. When individual scenes are cut, they are copied and pasted into Cuts. Curiously, they are almost never resurrected. We keep them on an off chance they might be needed, but 90% of the time, we do not reference the Cuts again. It just works out that way.
At some point, the manuscript required a drastic rewrite. There were too many scenes to copy and paste, so we shed the entire manuscript. We opened Bag of Money, saved it as Old Bag of Money, closed it, and reopened Bag of Money again, and then we hacked and slashed and rewrote secure in the knowledge that the old version was safe.
It’s a neater way to deal with things then trying to make up 50 million new names. Writers become abnormally attached to names. All sorts of names, names of characters, names of the files, etc. It’s very hard for us to change them once the names has been chosen.
Writers in general are kind of weird. I’ve known people who were stuck on a manuscript change their font in an effort to get past it. I’ve done it before. It works sometimes.
Because this is “other world” fantasy, there are some extras in this file. The names of people in this world are loosely based on Medieval Occitan and Medieval Dutch names, indicating different waves of occupying people. We are naming a lot of characters and having to reference the Dutch file quite a bit, so for now it lives in the main folder, but it really should be in one of the other ones.
Let’s look inside the Reference file.
We have three documents, Government, Prices and Wages, and Timeline.
While it is glorious to make things up, some aspects of this world required some research. We needed to know how government worked, so it has its own little file. Same for Prices and Wages. What is the currency that these people are using? How much does one coin of a particular type buy? How much are people getting paid? Timeline lists the events that happened before the narrative but which the narrative references. For example, when did a particular character join military? How old was he when he was discharged? And so on.
The Languages folder is an epic mess.
As you can see, it has a variety of conlang, made up languages, most of them produced with Vulgarlang.com. Do you know what I hate? Making languages. We needed a made up language, but phonology kills my will to live, and at some point trying to come up with a half decent sounding language was eating up too much time. Woedonti turned out to be somewhat not bad, but it is ugly as hell.
.and he stood holding his hat and turned his wet face to the wind…
vron voe klo proer sebolift vroes vron an tolf klo oezo me vol
Pronunciation: /vron vu klo prur seˈbolift vrus vron an tolf klo ˈuzo me vol/
Woedonti word order: and he his hat holding stood and the wind to his wet face turned
If I could find someone to make a pretty language for me, I would pay them money. Anyway, that’s what’s in the Languages folder.
Toward the end of the publishing process, the folders get a bit messier.
As you can see, this one has more files. Beta folder holds beta critiques, which we will not open because they have people’s names in the titles. We have Cuts again. Magic Claims.docx is the main manuscript. Tribute RS is the developmental edit, the first main edit of the manuscript, which at that point had code name Tribute before we settled on a title.
Magic Claims_SC is the copyedit. That pdf file marked 0423 actually shouldn’t be here – that’s copyeditor’s invoice and a copy of that invoice is in its proper invoice folder, but for some reason also here.
Magic Claims proofread is the final proofread manuscript, after the copy edit. We had a couple of people who were undergoing life-threatening medical treatment, so we made them a complimentary copy of the file, which is that Magic Claims proofread pdf you see. We don’t typically do this unless there is a very serious need.
The Excel spreadsheet is the vocabulary pronunciations for Hilary. This about covers it.
There are times when the Folder gets unwieldy and cluttered, but in general, we need to find the actual file quickly, so usually we keep one working draft and the old ones get shoved into Old Drafts Folder.
I liked to be able to open the folder and immediately find the right version of the manuscript.
Thanks. Sounds similar to what I do when I write protocols and presentations – try to keep the old (shoved in an older draft folder) just in case and keep the current one and eventually the final as easy to find as possible. But since I have to work with multiple people, often on shared files after I get a draft started, so much more complicated when 20 others put their sections and comments into the documents. Sigh.
In Word you can combine all the comments into a new draft. It’s a lifesaver when you’re dealing with multiple reviewers. If you are really lucky reviewer x will simply add their comments to reviewer y’s version. If you are lucky… The best thing about retirement was kissing version control good-bye 😎
Agree, much much better when everyone uses same shared versions for comments. Still herding cats to get done and get agreement. And when they accidently delete slides from powerpoint have to do recovery, etc. Debating semi-retirement and taking ‘easier’ jobs as a contractor or consultant. Too many upper management presentations lately – frustrating, they want 20 scenarios then go, oh well, we don’t have money for any of them , not sure why they want them to begin with?
Looks at what Ilona calls a messy folder, looks at own folders, creeps quietly away. 😉
Lol, right? My ADHD is dancing on the bonfire of my files
“…bonfire of my files”…I like that Mod R. That’s what I should think of when deleting files I no longer want or need. 😀
In Good Omens (tv version) is Dagon, Duke of Hell, Lord of the Files. This clarifies a long held belief of mine that setting up a file system that works for all personnel/scenarios would indeed be a punishment in one of the deeper levels of hell. Of course I might already be there with the DMS at my current workplace…..
Same!
So glad I am not alone! 🙂
Though to be fair I do have a pretty good idea of where anything I want is, so it may look messy or counterintuitive to someone else, but it works for me, which is really all that matters as they are my files. 😉
+1
LOLO, same here! I’m an IT BA who usually works on user, functional and technical spec documents and the initial picture just about represents my working folders on any normal day LOL
Thank you, thank you! Please continue to inflict manuscript awesomeness on me 😀 . We can call it torture if you want lol.
Thanks Mod R for the question of the messy files. It’s interesting to see how other people name their files and the folders the files are in. 🙂
When I download reports or start a new spreadsheet or PowerPoint, I’ll have the original file name. Then when I want to change something or do validation, when possible, I’ll either use the name “use” or “validation” at the end of the file name. Sometimes I’ll have the date behind the use to make sure I’m opening up the correct file. Validation files…they get messy in the Excel file, but the name stays the same.
::stands up:: My name is AP. I have a problem. I have trees of folders because I like being organized. Thank you for your support. ::sits down::
Welcome, AP! We hear you and we support your journey!
::stands up:: I don’t have a problem, my folder of folders and index spreadsheet are perfectly normal behaviour. I’m only here because my boss said I need to come. ::sits down::
Admitting is the first step to recovery 😀
::stands up:: It has been 6 months since the last time I used a blue word in one of my file names. Stick with the program, it gets better!
😀 We should have anniversary tokens. I don’t think I’d make it past the 1 week mark, but relapses are to be expected.
Mwahahaha!! This reminds me of epic reports and newsletters of long ago. Although then the creative, exasperated filenames were due to tardy reviewers who were stakeholders and the headache-inducing “group process” of reviews.
I actually felt like Indy with his whip – Back you too late changes! Stop with the nit-picking!!!! Yes, that is the correct term and spelling! I changed it because now the sentence makes sense to the masses AND abides by the style guide! Budget changes. Why is it always budget changes?
Stay cool!
Loved your use of folders and your explanations and naming. Please reassure me that you also backup your computer because losing all of that would be tragic!
When I wrote my dissertation in the olden days, I always had a backup hard copy of my old drafts in a folder in the trunk of my car, a backup floppy disk (heck I said “olden days” right?) in my purse and the older backup floppy disk at my school with older hard copies.
Have a wonderful day!
The path of the folder is visible and it says Dropbox. 🙂 No worries, everything is stored in the cloud.
Oh my god! MY olden days includes typing my Master’s Thesis on an electric typewriter! And mistakes were corrected by ripping out the page, flinging the wadded paper across the room, and typing it again (while praying you didn’t make ANOTHER typo on the page in a different spot)! Note the upgrade from the manual typewriter I used as an undergrad. And White-out was the liquid kind that some professors wouldn’t allow. Oh, how far we have come!
And the faster technology progresses, the shorter the available retention time. Remember 12″ floppies? NOBODY has anything that can read them now. Whatever data was on them – is now forever gone.
Oh God I still flash back to those days, especially when my kids were preparing papers in college.
I would tell them about it…my version of the old “when I was a kid we walked uphill both ways”. 😆
But seriously, the worst was typing that page again with edits and praying it didn’t change the footnotes!
Man I now feel ancient.
You had an electric typewriter?!!! Wow!!!!!!
In the LANGUAGE folder, I saw the file BIMBOLISH. Is that the language spoken by the Bimbo tribe? (Asking for a friend. 🙂 )
I wish. The language names are auto generated.
That one gave me pause too. There might be a short story right there, if the right anthology came along.
I love these insights into your work process!!
Also, I volunteer to be tortured with drafts! It’ll be so so so hard, but I’m willing. Sooooo willing!
Thanks for a glimpse into the “behind the scenes” work of creating a book. This is why I “luv” reading your books for the world building. You are figuring out how the government works, what is the money system, what is the language. All this grounds the characters and the story, making it so real. Now for the snark; wish more authors would do it, when they don’t you can feel how thin their worlds are.
It’s the difference between eating a great dinner vs junk food.
Campfire Writing has some really nice modules for organizing world-building. There’s free tiers to try things out, and then you can buy access to whatever modules you need like “languages”, “government”, or “religion”; the nanowrimo site has a 20%off coupon for lifetime purchases now. I got the writing module because for undiagnosed brain reasons (is it ADHD? oh probably) I need to be able to write on my desktop, laptop, or phone, and they have lovely syncing web, Windows, and Android modules that give me that. Also you can drop pictures in pretty much anywhere and set up mood boards and notes of all sorts.
Campfire started off mainly for organizing homebrew roleplaying games, but it’s really focusing on indie writers now. They’re doing a whole bunch of updating – I first checked them out three years ago and it was pretty meh, but it’s turned into a really useful site for me.
It was nice to see you using Dropbox. I have never used it. Does it allow you to go back a couple of days and retrieve an older copy? Do you use file history on a local USB drive in case Dropbox gets hacked or their backups fail?
Depending on your plan, Dropbox keeps your deleted files and edits for up to 180 days 🙂
This sounds much easier than creating a story bible. less messy, easy to track. TYVM for sharing!
nice insight! you seem very organized. I’m working on a talk right now, and made a separate file for Cuts (I called it Notes) as well.
It makes it a little easier to have somewhere to park my paragraphs and it’s true, mostly they don’t come back. but it makes me feel better to have them just in case.
Soooooo any chance we can read all the old cuts?!?! I think it would be fun if you randomly released them and didn’t tell us what book or scene they are so we can try to figure them out ourselves and see how they story could have been different!
We are sometimes generously gifted with old versions of things ( see the original intro of Sapphire Flames, for example https://ilona-andrews.com/blog/deleted-scene-from-hidden-legacy-4-more-cowbells/) but in general, it has several drawbacks.
First of all, as House Andrews like to say, “This was deleted for a reason“. Just like we wouldn’t like our imperfect drafts to be submitted at work or at school, so do authors like to get the best version of something out.
The other big reason is that people get confused. We all have busy lives and many books to read, so once we have a version of something in our minds, we tend to stick to those memories. If there are two versions of something, they will become conflated in readers’ minds and we will end up with “But this is inconsistent”, “But I thought X happened so why Y” and a flurry of negative reviews on books.
Speaking of negative reviews, a third reason is the Devouring nature of the BDH. Every single snippet shared with us on the blog makes it onto Goodreads, with a star review out of 5 and is treated as a fully published book with edits and proofreads and negative reviews for “this is unfinished”. 😅 The blog snippets are not that! They’re just surprise morsels for us to enjoy, usually written on the same day or the day before.
So we can enjoy deleted scenes, but in moderation.
And now I realise I have to start censoring another dirty word 😉
Snippets are like a fine wine (if you drink wine) or a delicate morsal of good food. Those we want to savor, not devour. Well, we try not to devour. 😉
All the snippets end up on Goodreads with reviews? Why would anyone do that to the authors? Especially when they are kind enough to let us have snippets? I am kind of surprised we still get snippets now that I have learned that.
That was my thought too! I’m “reviewing” something if it’s not a book that’s out for sale. And you know, don’t comment on snippets except on the blog site where they were offered.
My mind boggles on how someone can create a language. Should have realized someone could create a program for it. Still does not diminish anyone (like you) doing this in the creative process.
I wish I were as organized! My brain is very persnickety. I have tried in vain to organize my digital files but I always have to search before I can find the file I want.
But before I retired,I was an IT business analyst with many, many projects and customers active at once. I’d always have many paper folders stacked precariously and messily on my desk.
Anytime someone would stop by to ask for something, without fail I’d reach into the middle of one of many piles, pull out a seemingly random folder, flip to the middle of that folder, and hand them the paper they wanted, all in less than a minute even if that particular project was completed months and months ago.
I scared many of my co-workers. 😉
Oh I’m the same way about many things.
My husband is convinced I’m a witch, because it doesn’t matter what he ‘s looking for, I can tell him where he put it over ten years ago. If he still can’t find it, I’ll go pick it up and hand it to him.
When I was still working, people would wander into my office and ask me where they left ___. It didn’t matter what I was doing or how distracted I was, I’d look up and say “Oh I saw it over ___.” After I resigned, I still got a call from a few co workers asking where things were. Fun times.
this is so organized!!!
WowWowWow.
I write one chapter at a time then edit each chapter and put all the documents together into one giant document. takes forever but works creatively in my mind so I guess it works.
I too will have many saved files of a work in progress. I just append the date of the file save to the name: _20230823.
To avoid unnecessary confusion, there will be one or two drafts, a final draft, another with comments, then the final, no really final, product.
I cannot stop giggling over the ‘Bag of money’ file name.
My own files are quite an eccentric mess. It makes perfect sense to me, but anyone else is going to be scratching their heads.
I mention the delete key and my engineers twitch. and the folder will be one of two with *almost* exactly the same information with date stamps on front, a file name, someone’s initials, and a version number.
my version of file management is make future me’s life easier. if future me will be confused the system is bad and the delete key should be implemented.
Before starting my dissertation, saving files was a huge topic of discussion among doctoral students. Losing my work is horrifying to think about even now. So every time at the end of a writing session, I would save my work as an email document back to myself. Only if the servicer went down I would lose my work, not if my computer crashed – or my laptop got stolen – or my house burned down. My brain came up with all sorts of horror stories.
And to make me smile, I named each saved version after a fruit. My first draft was apple, my next banana, my next with cantaloupe. I got to kiwi .
As a copywriter, I get the attachment to titles. If I have to change the title, the original will probably end up in the copy. And if I have to cut it completely, I’ll keep it on another document.
Other copy editors have genuflected at my file trees and bowed to the names I use. I prostrate myself to the master.
Oh, that is not messy at all! I am only writting technical scientific articles, but I’m not able to keep it as need as you in my folders. So I usually have titles such as Manuscript_v01, v02 etc. Which is ok until some co-author starts doing revisions and re-names the file. And don’t get me started on the other stuff. As I usually need figures and tables, I’ll start naming them Fig.01 etc according to their place in the manuscript. But then I’ll do some changes, move the figures around and suddenly Fig.01 is figure 5 in the manuscript and I cannot find it because it’s still labeled as 01. So one big big mess.
Very logical and neat! I don’t write, but I was at my job for 26 years thru many many changes and I did much the same for things I thought I might ‘someday’ need again. Which I never did. When I retired it was such a pleasure to just delete all but the most recent stuff for the next person.
Since I have to use multiple report docs with the same names, I add the date to the name.
Magic Claims 031223.docx
Then if I have a redo, the date keeps me using the current file. Add dates to folders, too.
Government work is always so much fun. Lol
OK. My flitting brain was caught up by your files for Occitan and Dutch. That made me think that the BDH probably has lots of knowledge about many different weird (unusual) languages and would love to be helpful.
For my part, should you ever need any info/pronunciation on Friulian (“Furlan”), I’m your Person.
Spoken in north-eastern Italy and a little part of Switzerland (Romansch). The area has gone through many invasions, so Furlan includes aspects of Germanic, Slavic and old French as well as Latin, of course.
(And I, too, have many trees in my file folders. Even so, sometimes it takes me a while to find something I need. Sigh)
Thank you so much for your offer, mz! There is a special Experts folder where I have saved it 🙂 , and there are indeed a lot of wonderful people in it with a lot of fascinating areas of specialty.
Well, I am from Greece, so, if House Andrews ever needs help with anything from the Greek language or the Greek legal system (with an emphasis on criminal law- see, I am making it oddly specific), I would be glad to help!
I’m an Army Black Hawk pilot,one never knows when you need to understand rotary wing aerodynamics 😉
If we ever write dragons, we are coming to you with all the questions.
Great! The BDH gives back!!!
If you want to collect experts – I am Allergist/Immunologist MD (primary immune deficiency, food allergy, allergic rhinitis, hereditary angioedema, etc.) with experience on design and implementation of clinical trials (Pharma/Biotech) in respiratory, rare disease, and autoimmune indications (also worked on COVID trials). I wish I didn’t know quite so much about regulatory, business case, and such. Just doubt this will ever be the basis of an interesting book (usually the new compound gets loose and causes disaster in fiction, it doesn’t have development stopped because it works, but won’t make enough money compared with cost of doing trials).
+5 badass writers points for spreadsheeting your invented language. i approach excel only when it’s unavoidable.
nice relateable process. saving everything, giving files eccentric but totally functional, memorable names.
i am tempted to throw my hat in the ring for the providing evocative imaginary language thing, though. if i’m reading the word correspondence/order correctly, the woedonti results seem off. there’s not a word in the sequence that has the sound/feel of wet or wind, and ‘bolift’ as a base for ‘hold’ comes across as being kinda counterinstinctive to an english reader, given the ‘lift’ embedded in it.
i am a published (and OCD) fantasy writer who has a decent handle on a few non-english syntaxes and the worldviews that go with them, and i’ve worked with a few other amazing professional fantasy writers whose names you’d recognize before. not in this particular capacity, but…pretty language, evocative, pronouncable, this i can do and would enjoy doing.
and yes, of course, i do have a hidden agenda. it’s a longtime wish of mine to expedite a roman graphic novel for/with y’all. just saying.
happy midweek, regardless!
j
The one thing I’m grateful for as a software engineer is Github> I wonder if there is a version for writers
A peak behind the curtain. I’ve always wondered if there was a ‘murder board’ type of thing related to writing. Thanks for the peak!
Bimbo – lish? There’s a Bimbo line of snack cakes from Mexico. I haven’t tried them.
My mind took an unfortunate turn. When I saw “What’s in the Folder” I immediately flashed to the scene from “Seven” when Brad Pitt is yelling “What’s in the box?!”
Unfortunate because I laughed, at work, and had to explain to my perplexed coworker. Who immediately looked at me funny.
Still, I understand the woes of knowledge management. I often ruthlessly delete, rename, and move files at work. Naming conventions are a thing that I pound my fist about monthly.
I really enjoyed this inside look!
I’m retired now, but when I was working and writing reports – key component in my file names was a machine-readable date. I found that it helped me a lot.
Same!
Although it’s more a combi of dates +versions
20230812_report draft
20230813_report w comments
20230814_report final
20230820_report final with corrections
20230822_report final v2
20230823_report final v2.1
I HAVE A QUESTION ABOUT ARABELLA’S STORY FROM HIDDEN LEGACIES?
WILL SHE HAVE HER OWN BOOKS AND WHEN WILL THEY BE RELEASED???
Hi Mirna,
An Arabella series hasn’t been officially confirmed, however there are plans for it, so hope is not lost.
As soon as there are any official news, they will be updated on the Release Schedule page here 🙂: https://ilona-andrews.com/release-schedule/
This is A) brilliant- all of us aspiring writers love the tips and B) frightening how much it looks like Coding folders… idk if u code but that is a github repository if I’ve ever seen one
I can’t believe how organized your files are! My files are like a pile of confetti with the occasional large chunk of a folder coming to the surface. I know if I can vaguely remember the name I can use find file, so if my documents were paper they’d be in a huge heap with some binders sticking out here and there.
This is really fun to see your process! Thank you!!
Ah, new post, nice.
Read, scroll, nice pic, read, scroll another nice pic, read, scroll… WHAT?
Does it really say…?
Close eyes. Peek..
Yes, yes it does say… Dutch names.
My fav authors are going to do something with Dutch names.
*does happy dance*
Now I’m so curious what’s in there.
Willem? Floris? Constantijn? Friso? Hein? IJsbrand?
Geertruide? Aaltje? Saskia? Sietske? Emma? Engelina?
While we’re on the subject of y’all’s files, lol…
I swear I remember reading a Blood Heir snippet from Derek’s POV, like the early Curran scenes. I thought it was here on the blog, but it isn’t on any of the lists and no search results match.
I’m assuming I’m misremembering but figured I’d double check just in case. 🙂
Derrek POV snippets for Blood Heir don’t exist, sorry, cannot help 🙁
Must have been a COVID hallucination. Oh well. Plenty of other goodies to enjoy.
Thanks! Something so trivial, but really interesting to see 🙂
Quick question triggered by your vocab file comment… is it May-hon (KD main arc) or Mahn (Wilmington)??
Ma:n is the intended pronunciation but each narrator has an artistic licence 🙂
I’ve never really given this particular issue any thought before. Upon reflection, I can say that my files would be a sh!tsh*w of spectacular proportions.
Sorry this is off-topic. But do the author-couple have anything written on post-shift fauna or flora? Something like the ecology of the Impala Worm?
Also is there any prequel material? Such as an account of down town Atlanta during the First Shift?
Finally, is there a timeline of events (when the covens bought Centennial Park, when White Street got snow, when Champion Heights was built, etcetera)?
Thanks in advance
There is a prequel to the Kate Daniels world, it’s called Questionable Client and can be found in Small Magics https://ilona-andrews.com/katie-daniels-books/#small
There are no separate ecology treaties or historical monographs outside the worldbuilding in the books.
So do you write “start to finish” or does your manuscript contain fleshed out scenes interspersed with notations like [Catalina talks with Grandma] or [Kate & Curran make a baby]?
I definitely spent an exceptional amount of time this week trying to figure out how to use PowerShell to automatically update template folders and file names. I’m not an IT person. After a lot if searching, I found juuuust the right command on a blog post…hooray!!! And then the next entry said never to copy-paste a command if you don’t know what it does. Ugh. While the latter post was a good and timely reminder, it also really disappointing in my quest to (magically) update my files.