Today is the heavy topic Monday, it seems.
Why do certain genres deal with dark themes? “Perhaps HA can answer why themes of child abuse and rape comes up in certain genres. These themes are a bit stomach turning and I am curious to know what would propel an author to explore that.”
Art is a reflection of life. Rape exists. Child abuse, sexual abuse, murder, self harm, suicide, human trafficking, all those things may not be a part of our lives right now but they are a part of someone’s life.
If we pretend they don’t exist, we will end up with a version of Soviet media, which simply erased anything that they found problematic. Serial killers, prostitution, suicide, drug abuse, domestic violence, those things didn’t exist in the Utopian USSR. Neither did gay or transpeople, because communists are very conservative and they like to put everyone into a box. If you don’t fit into a box, if you stand out in any way – maybe you’re not comfortable with your gender, maybe you are unusually smart or perceptive, maybe you are neurodivergent – they will hammer you until they break you. And then they will put your broken pieces into the box.
This kind of erasure has real consequences. Chicatilo, the Rostov Ripper and one of the most prolific serial killers in the world, operated in my home city when I was a child. Part of the reason why it took so long to catch him stemmed from the officials’ refusal to admit that serial killers could exist in Russia. They were a Western perversion. The field of psychiatry in Russia may have caught up to US by now but when I was a teenager, it was considered to be a bullshit science without any real benefit or purpose. People in USSR did not have mental problems. How many people needlessly suffered and how many mental illnesses went untreated? We will never know.
Darker themes have their place. Sometimes their portrayal in fiction is simplistic and crude, sometimes it’s complex and nuanced, but they absolutely need to be in there. People are complicated and they have different needs. A diversity of fiction and themes is good because it allows us to pick and choose who we let into our heads.
Fortunately for all of us, entertainment isn’t compulsory. The scroll past it solution applies. Just as we can simply scroll past a post that doesn’t pique our interest, we can skip a book that might be too dark for where we are in life at this particular moment. Taking care of one’s mental health and emotional wellbeing is very important.
Where do you stand on trigger warnings or content warnings as part of the description of a book- in the author’s note, or even somewhere on the cover, like in the blurb? Can an author make them into selling points? Do they always spoil the plot? I noticed you said you would include them for the blog serial for Maggie, what about the published book?
Oy. This is a dialogue that’s probably above my pay grade. Let’s get some articles out there:
I Was Wrong About Trigger Warnings
Why Usage of Trigger Warnings Persist
As you can see, it’s complicated. I don’t know enough about this issue to be any kind of authority on it. People who are experts with a lot more relevant education and experience are hotly debating it right now, and I’m going to reserve my judgement until there is a consensus.
I will say that in my experience, trigger warnings on fiction most often do not actively represent the content of the books. If I tell you that Clean Sweep is a book about dog murder, will you read it? Probably not. Even though Brutus’ demise happens off screen and is the tiniest part of the narrative, I would be lying if I said there was no dog murder in that book. So I do not support very detailed trigger warnings.
However, I do support truth in advertising and I support providing enough information for the parents to be able to make an informed choice about the content their children are exposed to. So if part of Maggie will be serialized, it will come with R warning for violence, adult themes, and sexual content. Innkeeper has stayed pretty solidly PG 13 primarily because kids are reading it.
Other authors have shared in the past that whenever they are stuck, they go on a character murder spree. Do you also employ that solution when the plot doesn’t come easily? Was that why Aunt B died?
You guys do realize Patty was joking in that Facebook post, right?
People in books die for plot reasons. If I’m killing a child on the page, it’s because I want the reader to understand in no uncertain terms that the person doing it is a horrible slime and will get everything that’s coming to them. Because killing children is not okay and will not be tolerated. It happens in life and sometimes people get away with it, but if it happens in our books, the perpetrator will be punished. It’s about justice and balancing the scales.
Aunt B died because she was protecting those she loved. People remember her death. It meant something. It was the ultimate expression of a parent’s sacrifice, not just for Raphael but for the younger generation of the Pack. Parents do this every day in more mundane ways for their children. These sacrifices may be small, like giving up their free time to attend a ball game or large like mortgaging their house for college or medical expenses. But it’s a familiar feeling to any parent out there or just any older adult, who looks at the situation and steps in.
Writers do not make those decisions lightly. Please give us some credit, heh.
Oy. That was some Monday post. I feel like I need to share an apple cake recipe or something next.
Please remember that this is an active blog and your comments will be read by at least 15,000 people today alone. We’ve touched on some sensitive topics here, so please take care to share only what you are comfortable with.
PS Mod R:
Whilst we, on the Ilona Andrews website, are not equipped or trained to provide help in situations of crisis, if you are affected by any of the topics discussed today, please reach out to available medical and social aid resources near you.
Here some links for the US:
Emergency Medical Services—911
If the situation is potentially life-threatening, get immediate emergency assistance by calling 911, available 24 hours a day.
National Suicide Prevention Lifeline, 988 or Live Online Chat
If you or someone you know is suicidal or in emotional distress, contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline. Trained crisis workers are available to talk 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. These centers provide crisis counseling and mental health referrals.
SAMHSA Treatment Referral Helpline, 1-800-662-HELP (4357)
Get general information on mental health and substance abuse and locate treatment services in your area.
Veteran Crisis Line– Dial 988 and Press 1
24/7 confidential support for veterans and their families, specializing in military-related PTSD. You do not have to be enrolled in VA benefits or health care to connect.
More resources available at Mentalhealth.gov.
Thank you to everyone who participated in the discussion. We are now locking the comments on this post to make sure the discussion doesn’t veer off topic. Thank you for your understanding.
Thank you, as always, for the thoughtful post!
+1!
Hello, heavy topics for Monday.
Thank You for your USSR example / comparison, I think it explains a lot and it might be one of the reasons why the intolerance is in such areas IMHO still way worse Thani ‚normal‘ regions
I always appreciate your sharing your thoughts and expertise. Thank you. I liked what you said that just because you aren’t going through it doesn’t mean someone else isn’t. That is a truth I didn’t appreciate until 2 years ago. Personally I like the trigger warnings. I always read them because I know there are times I can handle specific topics and others I’m a bit more sensitive and may need to put on a back burner. I love your books and your blog. You guys are awesome. Thanks again.
Yes to sharing the apple cake recipe! I was just trying to search the site to see if you’d posted the recipe for the cake Dina made Sean. I remember that you did at some point but my memory these days is not to be relied upon!
Dina’s cake recipe is included at the end of Sweep of the Heart 🙂 – in my Kindle copy, on page 438.
Thanks!
Personally, I have thrown out books that were rooted in child abuse. It is not that I would deny that such happens, but that I look to fiction for escape and enjoyment.
If I wanted to look at things on that topic I would not be looking at fiction, but rather current events or historical reports.
The best trigger warning I ever saw stated that the central characters were recovering, and had some flashbacks. If a person expected such to cause them difficulty please do not purchase or read this book. The trigger warning should include enough information to steer a person away if necessary.
I agree 100%. I like the authors’ books but do not like the child abuse & torture that appear in them at times. It is a bit laughable that I won’t know these things exist if they don’t appear in my romance novels.
It’s not so much about not knowing such themes exist 🙂, but about acknowledging or learning about them in a fictional space that can allow you to think, explore your feelings about them, integrate into your philosophy, assess reactions etc.
It would offer one a separation from the shock of facing them for the first time in the real world in real situations. Or if they had already faced them, allow someone to see there’s a whole story, and the trauma doesn’t have to be the central part of their lives.
🙌 bravo 👏 Mod R
Fair enough. But again, that’s not what some people want or expect in a romance book. Power relations between adults, grimdark plots – no problem. Child abuse and torture? No thanks.
Ouch this is a tricky subject.
What irritates me are creators who confuse random dark & twisted (usually with LOTS of violence against women) with exploring difficult subjects. Nope. You are just wallowing in the ugly. (Thank you lovely authors for not wallowing in ugly.)
I think this is where covers can be handy and other clues that writers can give us about books. Reader reviews are helpful on this as well.
Sometimes I don’t want difficult. Or, I want difficult with JUSTICE. I get that it’s a fine line for authors about how to communicate that. Thanks also for your care in providing so many resources for folks on the post.
Urgh yes, violence against women doesn’t make a story interesting or edgy of whatever it is they think they are doing, all too often it is just plain nasty.
+infinity
When I need comfort reading, I know what books to look for without any warnings. If it’s an author/book new to me, I ask someone who’s read that author or book. When in doubt, if I’m not up for heavy stuff, I save new books for a later, happier date.
That is the difference between a story where violence or whatever has a purpose within the story, or it is just violence porn ,( akin to the Saw movies,etc). It can be a thin line.
Over the years my tolerance for the grim and dark has diminished a lot, i work as a physician and know quite a lot about the darker sides of Human life.
My principle for entertainment has become “tragedies is kept between nine and five”
And i skip good books if they are to grim, dark or bleak.
Left the glorious Charles stross series about the laundry after 4 or 5 books -to bleak, but still very good.
My reading is a break and a reminder of all the funny, sweet and lovely parts of life -and something to share and bond over -at the OR i often recommend caitlin morans funny books about life as a woman: How to be a woman and More than a woman.
Just reread macmaster-bujolds penric and desdemona series.
A comfort read with quite complex subjects and the most charming characters.
And the posts part about soviet reminds me of the TV series chernobyl, the most chilling part -for me- being the denial of the size of the catastrophe
Well, lets hope the Week won’t continue like the song Stormy Monday …. ( by Thibeault/T-bone Walker)
Thank you BDH and HA for making my laugh and think on a regular basis
❤️ nanna
This high school teacher with with you on “tragedies is kept between nine and five” . . . that’s how I maintain my reading mental health, too 🙂
This physician is with u. I don’t think anyone in the CC unit read/ watched anything deep the past 3 years
Another physician here. I do tend to prefer my pleasure reading material to be on the lighter/fluffier side. I deal with enough tragedy in my day job. That being said, I will read books with tough or depressing topics if I know there’s a HEA/HFN ending. That’s where romance novels can really ring the bell.
+1!
You do cover things that need to be said, and you do it calmly and gently. Thank you.
+1
In my opinion, the most interesting book characters always need to have experienced some kind of strife in their life, let’s take Kate for example: Can anyone imagine her being the daughter of two middle class parents who raised her in an ordinary house full of love? I am not saying there aren’t such characters who can be interesting, but there has to be something in their past or their present that allows the author to make them real, interesting and nuanced. And of course, the message that people CAN get over terrible things, that there is light at the end of the tunnel, is also an important one, as long as it is not delivered superficially.
I think the reason I love your books so much is the depth of the characters and the sense that justice will prevail eventually. I believe most readers truly need that. So, I personally don’t care how dark a book is, as long as there’s some light in the characters and hope for something better eventually.
Anyways, sending loads of love and hugs your way.
Love this comment, second all of this.
+1
Trigger warnings and dark themes are a difficult subject, but I like how you handled them in this post. I personally don’t read books that are too dark for me, especially those with romantic relationships based on power instead of caring. I especially hate the ones where the woman enjoys the man being a jerk to her – I think it teaches women to normalize and accept that behavior.
I actually stopped reading GOT because the themes were outside of my comfort level and justice wasn’t being served fast enough for me. I had to stop reading Black Dagger Brotherhood, Christine Feehan’s work, and Sherrilyn Kenyon because the themes got darker than I could handle. I’m not saying that the books aren’t good, just that they are too much for me.
Trigger warnings aren’t helpful, in my opinion, because they usually don’t address the part that triggers me. I think it’s great that an author cares enough about the readers to include them, but I haven’t found them particularly useful.
That’s why “Content Warning” is perhaps the term more suited to publishing 🙂. It’s possible to give advance guidance of general themes dealt with, but impossible to be aware of the specific triggers of each reader.
I think “Content Warning” would work better than trigger warning, too.
What triggers me won’t bother someone else. It’s too wide of a spectrum.
In writers groups this was always a tough topic. I kept being pressed on this and I finally told the group mod that until the book was finished there was no point in discussing the subject.
I look at it like a movie rating–are there mature themes? Is it violent? Etc. I can usually figure this out reading the synopsis, a sample, and a few reviews.
If it become too complicated, people won’t use it. That’s why I gravitate toward the movie rating system. It’s simple, most people understand it, and it doesn’t give the whole story away.
+1 for content warning ⛔️
That way when I read said content, I can exclaim in the correct manner then tell myself, yep was warned 🤓
Yes, I like the “content warning” label much better. Really, it’s too much to expect of an author to list all of the specific triggers, because who knows what will trigger people? Something as innocuous as a mother dying can be catastrophic for some. (Personal experience on this one.) But respectfully letting readers know that there are dark themes ahead, that can be very helpful. I’ll still add a few to the DNF list in the future, I’m sure, but my issues shouldn’t stop anyone else from enjoying an author’s art.
+1
I have a lot of books in my “waiting to finish” pile, because I have at times been profoundly depressed* and just can’t stand to have the heroes hurt in any way at all. This is not something that you can really put a trigger warning for on a cover, because part of what makes a story a story is difficult, unpleasant, even horrid things happening to our heroes, and them working out how to deal with those things. So now if I am that depressed I re-read books I know I can take, oddly enough that doesn’t mean books with no unpleasantness – crying about a character can provide me with relief from my own lack of emotion in that state. What I can’t cope with when I am at my most depressed is not knowing how bad it will get for a character, and even normally trusted writers like Ilona Andrews become untrust-worthy in that state of mind. However Illona Andrews books are among those that I re-read when I am in that state of mind, so than you very much for writing books that are re-readable, and that help me at my worst times.
*medical diagnosis, I’m on two anti-depressants, and OK at the moment, but I have a chronic pain probleem that will only get worse so I would not be surprised if I get profoundly depressed again at some point. I wish it wasn’t so, but I do my best to live with it.
TL;DR If I am profoundly depressed I stick to re-reads, and you are one of the writers I know I can re-read then, so thank you!
I hope better days are ahead!
Rewatching/rereading are recognised coping mechanisms for people with depression and anxiety- comfort and self care first!
During the pandemic, the Washington Post had an article about “comfort reading”, rereading favorite books rather than trying to handle new material. One person said she didn’t have time to reread whole books, so she read favorite parts – including Ilona Andrews’ ferret heist!
The ferret heist has everything: humor, cute animals, rich dudes being taught a lesson (calling about getting pressure sensors for their dryers was hilarious) and the triumph of our favorite animal mage. Plus they got the evidence!
Made me laugh in the depth of grieving. Feels like a soothing balm for my weary brain.
Hey ModR! Could we get a post sometime where folks share their favorite comfort read portions of House Andrews books?
That’s a great idea! I will add it to the list, thank you Tempest 🤗
Thanks, Mod R, but the idea was Tempest’s, in a reply to me. I don’t want to steal credit!
So it was! Still, team work 😀
Thank you for such a thoughtful post on difficult subjects.
I would agree with Mod R that “Content Warning” seems more appropriate. Kind of like on TV or where you said rated PG-13 (for mild violence) vs. rated R (for violence, language, and adult content). Although, I can see where a specific trigger warning could work in the serialization setting, since it would be for a specific scenario in that post and not just a generalized warning.
Whatever you decide to do, I’m sure it will be done with lots of caring and good intentions. Thank you for all the effort that you put into everything! 🤗
I stopped reading a particular author’s series because in each book, at least one of the main characters suffers horrible sexual abuse, usually throughout childhood. I can see doing it for one character in one book, or a couple of characters maybe, but not every single book. I started to wonder if she had suffered abuse as a child and this was her way of working through it, but it got to the point where — I don’t want to say mundane, because that’s totally the wrong impression — but as a reader, there wasn’t much difference between the characters in the various books. I think I stopped reading after about 20(?) books because the books got longer and the abuse more detailed and repeated multiple times throughout the book. I decided to stop reading her books at that point.
I totally understand this. While it may be helpful for some, it isn’t for me. Suffering just makes me sad, particularly when it’s repeated and ongoing.
Im thinking that sometimes dark and evil is necessar6 for plots and character development. If all characters were Sunny and happy, who would care? Our lives are not all sunny and happy.
It is also a good thing to read this because it can help us progress ourselves. Bad things happen all the time but it is so much better to have them happen in fiction than real life. (We have enough of that!)
Finally, including such things can also help those who so unfortunately have live$ them. To see someone go through (sort of) what you went through can help in processing.
And really finally, I just don’t like trigger warnings. If you pick up a book and don’t like what you read, (1). why did you even pick it up after reading the blurb and (2) STOP READING. Trigger warnings seem more fairy tale-ish to me. None of us can ever be never “triggered”.
(I am turning grumpier and grumpier as I get older … er, more mature.
That would depend on the blurb in question, or the genre of the book, or style of the author (if well-known enough) providing enough to inform the reader’s choice about content. This does not always happen.
The difference between a content and a trigger warning is largely a scale one, but certain triggers are more likely to appear in association with certain content. As you point out, that’s not always the case and no one can protect 100% of the people 100% of the time.
Once a trigger is encountered, however, the person may relive their trauma and experience a lot of uncontrollable reactions, such as intrusive thoughts, feelings of terror or panic etc. Simply advising them to “stop reading” (which mostly they would) will not solve or control these psychosomatic responses.
It is a complex subject which is treated with more care than in the past, but still very far from having complete solutions.
Agreed. But still makes me grumpy because protection from reliving trauma is one thing but protection from every possible trauma is another. It’s a fine line and I really do know that but making everything “safe” in books doesn’t solve the problem.
(Sigh. It’s hard to adult) but
And it is impossible, not simply from the point of view of covering everything that might create associations for people but also the reason both you and Ilona point out: we learn about and work through the difficult or dark areas in life through exploring these themes in stories, art, abstract or metaphorical spaces. That is one of their main purposes.
As one of the linked articles pointed out, avoiding reminders of trauma keeps you vulnerable to the trauma, because healing from trauma requires desensitization, which requires repeated, limited exposure. Professional guidance may be necessary to develop positive, effective coping mechanisms, and is probably a good idea in any case.
The same article also points out the limited availability of PTSD treatment, so thank you for including those resource links.
I’m having a tough time with some music right now. The memories it calls up can be tough to handle. Sometimes I just have to turn it off. At the beginning, that lasted for six weeks.Now it’s only a few days at a time. Nobody can put trigger warnings on those songs because some of them are really cheerful and upbeat. I wouldn’t want anyone to stop listening to them on my account. You have to know your limits and protect yourself, and set yourself up for success. You challenge yourself when you know for a fact that you’re up for that challenge.
I hear you about music triggering bad memories. I can’t stand certain bands or types of music because of memories I don’t want to think about. I put all the crap behind me and healed from it. I drove my older brother nuts because he liked some of the bands I very much dislike and told him if he wanted to listen to them fine. However he needed to put on his headphones because I didn’t want to hear it.
Trauma therapy is a very specialized type of treatment and PTSD is not something you just start “desensitizing” yourself to.
It’s done in a very slow and controlled fashion with a lot of specific medications assisting in breaking the mental connections, and it can take years.
If a therapist is treating someone with PTSD and are not doing so in a trauma-informed way (which especially means talking AROUND the trauma and traumatic events, not making someone re-live them over and over) they can do incredible amounts of harm. It doesn’t take much to push someone from intrusive thoughts to nighttime flashbacks to daytime flashbacks, and the worse it is the more difficult that person’s life is. Not to mention the longer it will take any treatment methods to work.
There is SO much more to PTSD than just the flashbacks, but they’re a pretty awful part.
Fiction writers are not doctors or therapists, they’re definitely not YOUR doctors or therapists, so the idea that “exposure therapy will toughen them up” is why so many people with PTSD live short lives full of suffering.
none of us can ever be triggered??
oh my.
“None of us can ever never be triggered”
Emphasis mine 🙂. I think mz is saying it’s impossible to always avoid all triggers for everyone.
I swear negation in the English language is extra tricky for some reason. Seems like half the time when I thought somebody said SOMETHING, they actually said NOT SOMETHING. Or vice-versa.
For example: “I could care less” when one actually means “I could NOT care less” is a pet peeve of mine. Every time I hear the first phrase I end up rolling my eyes and really annoying someone *sigh*
Heh. I sing to my husband every time he says that 😀 But if you don’t care a feather or a fig. You may grow up to be a pig https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRazSO9xjFo&t=1s
But I’m not saying that grammar or syntax should be generally enforced with such torture 😀
And now I have that song in my head. LOL!
+1 over and over again.
Exactly. Thank you!
I know you well enough by now from opinions and comments to know you wouldn’t say the opposite! 😊
As someone who grew up reading a lot of fanfic, it’s weird to me how people freak out (one way or another) about “trigger” or “content” warnings. Like we don’t already get them in front of TV shows on HBO or movie ratings or ESRB ratings.
I think the use of the word “trigger” (in this context) is outdated these days, due to the misunderstanding/misuse of it. But if a book explicitly deals with rape, child sexual abuse, or other similar themes I think having a small content warning is not at all a bad idea. The problem would only really arise, IMO, if we start trying to account for EVERY possible thing that could be “triggering” for people. Which is why keeping it to the types of things that are usually warned about in TV/Movie/Gaming makes sense.
I mean, I just re-read Sweep of the Heart and before the Talent competition there’s a small warning about the “brief description of animal cruelty.” I think it’s an appropriate warning, even if I didn’t personally need it.
It would be really weird to say that Clean Sweep is “about” dog murder; because that’s not at all what it’s about, obviously. But if it were being posted on a fanfic site/forum, I wouldn’t be surprised (tbh would expect) to see under warnings/tags: “animal death.”
That’s also the difference I see between the internet and in printed works. When I scroll through a forum or website with posted fiction, you can opt to exclude things tagged with things like “animal cruelty,” etc. So what you’re really looking at is a list of terms a potential reader can skim, see if it suits them, and they can read or not based on that. But there’s been a weird kind of disconnect between those kinds of communities and the professional application, would be my guess. Realistically we don’t need a wall of text or even a sentence. If we could stick to tags like “child abuse” “animal cruelty” “depictions/discussion of rape” etc. I think that would be fair.
Like, I don’t even know why anyone would expect classes to have trigger warnings. Moreover, my experience with them in fan spaces has been that they’re used so that people know what they’re getting into. Some people just do not wanna read something where an animal dies, and I get that. Some people are like, well I’m glad I was warned, I’m still gonna read it and hope for the best. And some just won’t care. The articles seem strange to me probably because of my personal perspective in experiences with the tag/warning systems of fanfic sites and forums, frankly. Because it doesn’t have to mean that someone is so traumatized they can’t deal with a particular subject. It’s really just a heads up.
I warned my mom before she watched John Wick. I felt it would have been incredibly cruel of me not to. She still enjoyed the movie, was still heartbroken in the beginning (even with the warning) but at least she knew what was coming so it didn’t really upset her that much. I suppose I just feel like that kind of thing is a courtesy to others.
Great post. Sometimes I love dark themes, other times I’m not in the mood for it. If a book seems good but is too dark for me at the time, I either put it on my ‘To buy’ list or I buy it and just read it when I’m in the mood (but if House Andrews wrote a super dark book, I’d read it right away, no waiting involved, no matter my mood!).
Whether I’m in the mood for dark or not, I have to admit trigger warnings annoy the crap out of me and I try my best to avoid them.
Also, I love your points about Utopian USSR and the “scroll past it” option.
There is a genre of romance books I cannot stand as I get older. The Alpha Males and the Women who are taught that they love being dominated.
It’s just so… creepy. IDK how you would “warn” for that, but I can usually see it by the end of the first chapter if it’s not evident in the blurb. Then it’s DNF for me. Certainly other people may like it, but I can’t stand it.
I’m happy to read a book with dominant characters(even Dom/Dommes), but if that character isn’t into consent and aftercare 👎👎
Yes to this. Play in the bedroom (or whatever room floats your boat) is fine, but if it bleeds into real life, it’s pathology.
Oh, I hear you on this. So many times there’s no discussion, no using words at all, just boom.
A book I read not long ago had the main character (a woman) being “punished” for things no one had told her there were rules for, and of course the only “punishment” that any of these books can come up with are… spankings. But but, they’re sexy spankings, so it’s okay! You just… you don’t punish someone for not being able to read minds.
A whole swath of 40-year studies on corporal punishment used on children were published recently, with the resounding conclusions that it is extremely damaging for someone dependent on you to be struck for any reason as it causes severe safety and security issues for the rest of their lives.
I don’t know about you, but someone grabbing me and spanking me to make me do whatever it is they want me to do, is considered assault and manipulation with threats.
One book had the Alpha grr dude yelling “Would I ever hurt you?! How dare you think that!”… while he is hitting her so hard she’s crying. Ohhhh, but it’s on the butt, so that makes it all okay…
It’s just frustrating, too, because we don’t use negative impact training on creatures like parrots and horses and dogs and cats. Positive reinforcement only, resetting to neutral if there is unwanted behaviour, or diverting that behaviour into appropriate outlets (like cat toys instead of attacking hands or feet).
Heavy topic yes but well handled as usual. It’s interesting to read not only your reply to the questions but the other posts as well to get other perspectives.
Heavy Monday is right. Glad you set the record straight though. The links are a gem. I love the Mama Bear stance on harm to children. Guilty of this crime will be eviscerated in HA fiction. I am all for it. Jasper’s just desserts were well served. The KD slice n dice methods soothes a deep need in me to dismember slowly the dregs of humanity. I can understand the temptation for “creating” a society where it doesn’t exist.
^this 100%^
*wink* the BDH might well be a motley assortment, but I think we all crave a bit more magic and HA delivers so well.
Trigger warnings are one thing. That’s fine and it’s up to the individual and the author. These days you can google and see if you need to be concerned. Goodreads is my friend when I’m feeling fragile and need to be sure I’m safe.
However I am 100% against censorship of books.
I understand and support the need for classification – this is a children’s book, this is erotica, this is SF, this is crime, but I completely oppose any type of censoring of content after publication.
If as an editor or publishing house you don’t want to print then fine. If as an independent shopkeeper you don’t want to stock it, fine. If as a shopper you don’t want to buy then fine. If as a reader you dislike the content, stop reading. Unlike TV, written content tends not to assault your eyes as quickly. Maybe leave a bad review about why you didn’t like it. Whatever. But censorship is a slippery slope.
Who decides what should be taken out or rewritten? I don’t like hunting, I’m going to cut it out of everything I read it in. Is that justifiable? Buddhists might agree with me so I can claim religious and ethical superiority over other factions. Is that fair, is that right?
What about classic literature? Are we changing history? Editing out something that happened in a story because it might upset someone today but was first written in context? Then in the next decade it will look like these things never happened because the future generation have never read about it and many won’t bother with real history books.
What’s the next step if people disagree with the content or disagree with the content changers? Banning books? Imposing fines? Who’s enforcing this? Are we burning books? What are we doing with the repeat offenders? Prison?
Censorship is a dangerous road. Choice is the better option.
I’m replying to myself because I also want to add that I don’t think we should over examine fiction books and by association seem judgemental of the readers of said books.
Let’s face it, most of us read as an escape so it’s not that much of a stretch that people want to read their sexual fantasies, whether they’re the type they’d actually act on in daily life or not.
And with bleaker books you can feel relieved it’s not reality. Then of course lots of people have an interest in criminology so of course the content will be darker.
Just because it’s not our preferred genre doesn’t mean we should disapprove.
I love to see people reading anything and I don’t think we should be embarrassed of our books either. I’ve read across lot’s of genres and will happily own it – although I’m not saying that you have to come forth and proclaim your reading choices either.
Just let’s not be too opinionated about content. Let’s think if we might be making someone feel bad about their reading decisions. Let’s be nice.
Indeed, heavy topics.
During the pandemic, when some fairly heavy things were going on in my life, I could not read any fiction with dark content. Most of what I read was light and fluffy. Even then, if a character in a book did something egregiously stupid, I had to put the book down and walk away for a while.
It was an unexpected form of self-care.
Even if authors decide not to include triggers, places like goodreads, Amazon and such always have plenty of reviewers willing to point out every trigger contained within (and so much more). If you’re willing to take a moment, you can easily research triggers for most books. But you have to be willing to risk spoilers, too.
I recall a note Mercedes Lackey included at the end of one of her SERRAted Edge stories, which are based on the premise (if you’re not familiar with them) that elves exist hiding in plain sight, and are doing much better thank you with the prevalence of non-ferrous alloys in today’s world…thus the SouthEastern Road Racing Association, SERRA, a drag racing organization. But they also still rescue kids from abusive situations. This was one of her reasons for starting the series.
She included in her note phone numbers for places to go to get help.
Mercedes Lackey has always been my number one go-to when I need comfort reading. And I firmly believe she doesn’t get enough credit for writing about LGBTQ characters in a lovely, normalizing way!
Yesss, she was normalizing LGBTQ+ characters and poly relationships camouflaged by covers with pretty white horses on them, and was doing it at a time when it would have gotten her books banned from all the places. I still don’t know how they flew so completely under the radar.
Her Vanyel books (and Gryphons of course) got me through so many bad times as a gay kid in a high school so sheltered (and so long ago) no one knew what the word “lesbian” meant.
Group showering in a locker room full of guys when you’re dealing both with hormones AND with finding guys attractive? Yeah, that’s a special kind of hell, especially because if someone notices then they’re ALL going to kick the crap out of you.
I loved her SERRAted edge books (found some published as audiobooks recently!), and her Bard series with Elvensteed motorcycles, and and. She’s definitely a comfort read for me, too. I’m looking forward to her new Gryphon book!
Wow heavy Monday topic indeed.
I agree with Mod R. If you need help with your mental health, please get it. Plus, you are not alone.
Mod R love the new avatar. I would have thought you would be showing you Halloween one to get a head start. 😁
I’m waiting for the Pumpkin Spiced Latte release and then I will LET LOOSE! 😂
Ah you’re incognito right now. 🥸🐈⬛☠️👻☕️😎
Heh, I’ve jumped the gun and made a fall themed chicken salad today. (Apple/dried cranberry/candied pecan) I’m ready for summer to be OVER!! Time for football, colorful leaves, and most of all cooler weather!!
Amen to the cooler weather!
Now if only this high pressure system would stop hanging around Texas.
Not just football — Baseball Playoffs & World Series!!! The announcement that Fall is here!
Ooh!! I love chicken salad and that recipe sounds so good!!
Also yay for cooler weather!!
Mod R, I was fascinated to see that a well-known donut place here in NJ already has pumpkin spice lattes available. I broke down, ignored my “not before October 1st” rule, and had an ICED pumpkin spice latte yesterday.
Nope, nope, nope…too early, it’s just not the same. Lesson learned and I am now looking forward to October 1 and a nice HOT pumpkin spice latte! 😂
I realize that as a native of the USSR you certainly already know this, but I just wanted to add the ironic observation that there were no crazy people in the USSR… except the people who disagreed with the government.
https://fee.org/articles/zhores-medvedevs-life-a-chilling-reminder-of-how-the-soviets-weaponized-psychiatry-against-dissidents/
I just wanted to post that addendum because I find it doubly ironic in light of your post.
RE: Patty’s murder spree. I had a conversation with her trusty assistant, Anne, several books ago about characters that had a mind of their own and the walking stick came up as a character that kept coming back no matter how often she gave it away, and inserting itself into the story. So I wasn’t surprised when Patty eventually killed it in a heroically satisfying self sacrifice.
I actually laughed out loud when it came back from the dead.
Like some other commenters my tolerance for darker topics has changed over time. Maybe since becoming a parent… but I have always found that with your books, I never really skip scenes. 😎 even with Aunt B, it was part of the narrative part of life as you say… thank you for always having such a great read here at the blog…even if heavy on a Monday…
People who get offended by trigger/content warnings are really weird. Like not everything is about you sometimes? Oh no you had to read a brief couple of sentences meant for someone else so they don’t accident relive the worst moments of their lives like the death of a child.
I’d much rather have a brief content warning then randomly come across a graphic r-word description in a book out of the blue. Or something that says depression or unaliving yourself is major theme of a book rather than finding out half way through in a week I’m already feeling low.
I hate the grim dark genre. Real life is awful so my characters lives must be awful or it isn’t realistic. Sir, you have magical elves and god born assassins so your book already isn’t grounded in realism you don’t have to be extra racist just to keep it realistic. I keep a book by a certain author just so I know never to read him ever again because his work was so horribly misogynic because “that was what life was like”. People sometimes mistake “realism” for depth or quality.
I stopped reading another author because I realized literally every book had issues with consent even among love interests. These are personal things. I’ll definitely put that in my review so others know if there wasn’t a content, but I don’t always read reviews before starting a book. If you are reading things the day they come out, sometimes there are not reviews to read or people that have written them don’t have the same sensitivities as you.
It is really all about setting expectations. That doesn’t mean there can’t be surprises. If you sell me a romance and tell me the protagonist has an angsty backstory, I’m prepared for angst. You tell me the protagonist is involved in animal rescues, I know there is potential for bad things to happen to animals. If you drop child murder and cheating and tragic health diagnosis into the middle of my supposedly light romantic comedy, I’m not going to be happy because you didn’t set expectation properly. You tell me you are grim dark I know I can avoid you and go find something else because you’ve set proper expectations. Someone throws in an advanced-level super niche kink without a content warning, I’m going to stop reading that person.
I don’t think anyone is expecting all potential triggers other than trolls and narcissists. They just want the big ones listed. You know the major things that people see shrinks for or cause PSTD. Or, and I can’t state this enough, really niche kinks.
I always appreciate that the deaths in your books are meaningful and impactful. There are a few authors I won’t read anymore because I felt the deaths in their books were treated lightly or were gratuitous.
My sister and I share an interest in some books and some authors, but certain themes trigger her and cut her enjoyment of a book, even if it is an author she likes. I know the thing that triggers her most, which is why I told her not to read the third Mercy Thompson book. She’s read every other Patricia Briggs book(though not the short stories), but that one she just knows the gist of through the other books in the series.
Appppppppple caaaaaaaaaaakkkkke yesssss!!!! Please? Pretty please?
For me, heaviness tolerance is also about what an author wants a reader to get out of their books. If you want readers to come away feeling like a character has really been through some things and managed to put themselves together or get justice anyway, or whatever, that’s one thing for me as a reader. If the author wants me to be really really really clear that everyone and everything is horrible and terrible and then we all die, well, that’s less appealing for me personally. I see it sometimes with ‘epic fantasy’ – books that just end up feeling like such a slog, because all the characters are nasty, and miserable, and their world is nasty and miserable. Give me something to root for besides a quick and merciful end to everyone’s suffering!
Some have moved on from trigger warnings to simply “content note.”
As a survivor of various types of violence I do like a chance to either brace myself before reading or perhaps schedule that reading for a time when I am calmer. This has been a difficult year so maybe not the best time for, say, a book about a serial killer that goes into graphic detail. Another time, if the characters hunting the killer are great people like the Baylors, I’d probably enjoy it, just as I enjoyed them going after the assassins at Diatheke.
I hadn’t really thought about Clean Sweep as a book about dog murder but a content note might say that some brief mentions of “off camera” harm to animals is included in the overall plot. That’s far different than following the POV of a budding serial killer as he kills neighborhood pets with graphic images of those murders. That would be a book ABOUT dog murder. (I’m not up for that personally. At least not this year.)
So the WAY in which the warning or content note is worded can affect whether someone reads the material. If it’s a feminist essay I don’t let the note or warning stop me from reading, but others might.
There is a fair criticism of male authors who write a lot of books where women are raped and then fend off complaints with, “Well, it was the historical period being portrayed.” I notice that even though men were also raped in those historical periods and in the present day, the same authors aren’t writing those scenes. It makes you wonder.
Aside from wondering if some authors are getting off on such portrayals, I am firmly against censorship. I do think rape is overused as a device for women to grow and learn and find strength from having survived. Surely there are many other difficulties in life that we struggle with and then find strength to overcome. [Note that survivor communities of all types feel that we aren’t required to learn some lesson from suffering nor did any of life’s traumas or challenges happen to us because we needed a lesson.]
I’m saddened to hear that a serial killer in the USSR was able to kill for a much longer period of time because they felt like they couldn’t admit he existed. I can understand the push to cover such things up because the cult I was in also had that pressure. If you’re trying to promote what you think is a better way of life that could help people, even if that’s not 100% true, your zeal for converts leads you to present an idealized front. You also willingly don blinders to keep your own doubts at bay.
The warning for the sensitive audience applies to me….it doesn’t scare me away, but I am forewarned. I’m skip forward kinda of gal….I find graphic details causes high anxiety…I will skip forward a few pages or complete chapters….example a well known author has a serial killer series. He alternates chapters…either in the head of the serial killer or with the team solving the mystery of identification to bring them to justice. I read every other chapter, and I enjoy the book from the detective point of view. I often skip forward to see the end result of a intense scene….if it isn’t too tragic…I will go back and read the entire scene. My coping technique, though very simple allows me to enjoy most books.
I’m looking forward to the honey muffin recipe. 😉
For me, a rape in a book that is called such is not as disturbing as a scene where consent is clearly not given, but the author pretends that this is normal and makes the female fall for the male hero. I have stopped reading that story in disgust.
This is indeed a heavy subject to tackle and I’d like to add my own two cent on the why are there dark themes subject.
First why people might write this:
– It could be a way to provide depth to a character (this is the aspect that I feel HA described in their answer) : as they said we are not perfect and litterature should reflect that (that is not to say that there should not be any feel good books where everything is perfect just that litterature as a whole should have individual books that reflect the reality). Here the dark theme might not be the main plot but it will have consequences to shape the character’s personnality,
– It could be a mean for the author to condemn/address the subject. It does not necessarily means that there will be a happy ending but the subject will be broached and dealt in a “dark light” (for instance a character could be a child abuser but will face retribution for what he did). The dark theme here will be essential to the story and there will be some sort of resolution/condemnation of what happened,
– Finally, it could be a mean for catharsis for the author, if he or she experienced it they might want to talk about it in a safe way. In this case the goal is to flesh out what happened or why it happened with enough distance to be able to deal with the pain it caused. There is no way of distinguishing this one from the two former reason but it is a real (and sane) way to deal with a trauma. More often than not in this case there won’t be a happy resolution because usually it means that you are trying to understand your trauma and not how to live past it.
Second why people read this is nearly a mirror to the previous elements:
– The reader aknowledges that the world is not perfect and that those dark themes exist and could happen to anyone. In this case the reader is remotely distant to this theme it is just another element of the story,
– The reader is curious about a dark theme which does not mean that he accepts it or wants it in any way, just that he doesn’t understand how this could happen how this can exist. In this case the reader feel concerned about the theme wether it’s because he thinks that it might happen to him or because he is revolted by it and want to understand how can one go to such length,
– The reader wants validation, he lived through this and it helps him to see other people acknowledge it. When there is a dark theme, the people that were impacted have been changed dramatically and reading about it can bring hope that there will be a happy ending about it or help them understand what happened to them.
In short, no matter how remote you are from a dark theme, they exist in the real world. It is your choice to read/write about it or not but some people do need to read/write about it and it should never be banned.
Thank you for educating us about life in Russia/environs. I have never heard abt that.
I know there are people that like the dark side but it sure isn’t me. I worked 20 yrs in Cardiac Recovery ICU with both adults & babies. I don’t go looking for angst or bad news in books, I want a fun escape – thank you HA for WONDERFUL books with lots of depth of characters and story lines.
As I have grown older the thing that pushes a BIG button for me is men abusing/taking advantage/demeaning women. I’m in my 70’s, and was on the cutting edge of women breaking into male dominant fields. Ie I was the only women in my physics classes. I learned quickly to speak up!
In one recent read (part of a series) it supposedly was the young lady’s viewpoint but her lovers were clearly intimate with her just to get their rocks off. I kept waiting for her to stand up and object. What does this story teach young impressionable girls? It bothered me so much I wrote a review and pointed out that it really felt as if a man wrote it. Obviously I did not read the rest of the books in the series.
In retrospect I see now why I love the Hidden Legacy series so much. Nevada and her sisters do not tolerate demeaning behavior!
Content warnings sound good, but the reader should read reviews if they have serious triggers. I do not even watch the news anymore because it is so depressing.
Life is stressful, so I choose not to add to it by poor choices in reading etc!
JR Ward caught forty kinds of hell for writing a book where the main character’s love interest was ill and dying. It went through the process, conversations and thoughts of the survivor. This one was not an HEA.
Now, buckle up. I watched my husband die. I watched him collapse. I watched him struggle to lift his head, pupils blown, and mouth, “I love you” to me. I watched as the doctors tried everything to keep him alive, and nothing worked.
Reading that book was the first time I felt comfort. Not from the situation but from someone understanding the helplessness, the panic, the grief. The feeling your life had ended, too.
So some of the dark parts of fiction have value. I realize another person would have a different reaction, but had I not persisted past the possible trigger I night not have moved forward in accepting all my emotions.
As long as the subject is not introduced merely for shock value, I applaud authors for their courage in exploring such sensitive topics. It can be of great value in some circumstances.
I’m sorry for your loss. I was going to add sorry that you had to watch that, but perhaps it was good that you were there? I’m glad to hear that you were able to find some comfort and are able to move forward. ((Hugs))
Thank you. It was hard but it’s become part of the story of my life with him. The hospital staff was kind enough to let me stay alone in the room after he died. I was there for eight hours by myself (we were on vacation when this happened so it took a while for family/friends to get there) and now I look back on that as our last conversation. I loved him very much. We were married for 30 years.
While it is great that everyone is being so generous about authors employing the themes of child abuse and rape, I have to disagree with a lot of the opinions. For far too many of the books that I have read, extreme violence against women and children (and less frequently men) is mindless trope.
Want to show your world is harsh and brutal? Rape the women and children! Want to give your character a tragic back-story? Rape and beat him. Want to give your (mostly female) character motivation to level-up? Rape her!
While these situations can be handled with consideration and successfully used as part of a character arc, far to often they aren’t. Far too often, these situations are treated in a manner you could characterize as torture porn. The author writes in great depth about the trauma occurring (sometimes quite graphically) then does a “cut-scene” and suddenly you have a triumphant heroine/hero. In other words, the author has chosen to point the camera lens at the act of brutality instead of pointing the lens at the character and her/his journey. This causes theses scenes to become “brutality for brutality’s sake”.
It’s not that characters can’t overcome trauma. It is that generally they aren’t given the voice need so we can see them overcome. And THAT is problematic. I have always felt that this very approach is far too demeaning to true rape and trauma survivors and serves to trivialize these themes for the rest of us.
As for the “why?”, I think some authors are aiming for shock value. Some authors lack imagination and fall back on the tropes I mentioned – there is a whole world that both motivates and traumatizes people without including rape or child abuse. Some authors are emulating series that made it big in the recent past – it’s about the money after all. A small few are well intentioned but lack the skill to successfully bring the scenes to the page. Then a very very small few authors are able to respectfully integrate these themes, give them meaning, keep the lens on their character, and write a compassionate though dark story.
Do note, it sounds like I seek these books out. I DO NOT. In fact, I tend to divest myself of such books pretty quickly. Generally, I come across these books because they have been either hyped or recommended by a friend (one insanely popular, yet unnamed series comes to mind). Or in one unfortunate case, I’ll have a long struggle with Amazon suggestions **shudder**. In this case, content warnings would have been appreciated!
to lighten things up recipe for Banana Buritos
Take one flour tortilla, heat it up, i use my gas stove and flip it a few times, but do whatever works for you. spread with nuetella, place banana on top, either whole or sliced, squirt on whipped cream, or if you make it yourself, dollop it on. fold into a burrito shape and enjoy for breakfast or treat.
You had me at Nutella!
I do this with a fried sweet plantain too. Its delicious!
Now I’m going to try making a Banana Nutella Burrito for lunch today!!! 😍💕💕
Follow-up: the Banana Nutella Burrito Alice mentioned a few comments up was amazing, and so quick and easy to make!! Highly recommend! 😍💕💕💕💕
Hi – have suffered from depression since my teens and ‘the wrong ending’ can be a bad trigger so generally read the end of the book first jic. Only a couple of exceptions including Ilona Andrews. Thank you for providing a reliable enjoyable read.
As a former VA employee, I just wanted to add this site to your list of resources for those with specific military-related PTSD: https://www.veteranscrisisline.net/
Thank you so much Jessica, I will add in a moment!
I am a Forensic Nurse Examiner. I have not had the unpleasant experience of reading gratuitous murder or violence for the sake of it. Meaning the author doesn’t just stick that in for no reason.
I am far more likely to find the gratuitous sex scene which really does nothing to further the story. That being said, I know better than most what a dark world we live in, but in stories such as this team writes, there is justice. That is unfortunately not always or even mostly true out in the real world. So for me, this type of genre let’s me be my white knight, where the bad guy generally loses.
They are hard topics to explore and I cannot imagine an author just “tossing” violence in just to fill white space. I have found that these books are thoughtful and thought out. It all makes sense to me.
If you find yourself walking in the darkness in real life, please, ask for help. There are a lot of us out there who want to help!
The part about the Soviet Union reminds me of what I heard from a native about theft in Romania. It was rampant while they were under the Soviets but the local government was unable (or unwilling) to state that it existed at all.
This caused most people to not lock their doors since theft did not exist.
Once the Soviet Union fell, the Romanian government was able to publish the statistics about how prevalent it was. One of the unintended consequences this had was making a lot of people thinking the fall of the Soviets also causes the crimes to start.
I like dark themes. They make the book feel more real in some ways. I want the light, fluffy unrealistic and the dark realism at different times in life and find those in books as I need. The best books have both.
As a now recently retired psychotherapist (of 30 years+/-), I enthusiastically applaud your post. I have just erased my almost lecture on your topic here which firmly and vigorously supported your post. Instead, thank you for posting this and thank you for adding links for appropriate services. There are many excellent services available (never enough, though) and I have been fortunate to work with wonderful, compassionate, reality-based professionals in my work. Bless you House Andrews for adding in such a positive way to our world.
As Ive gotten older I’ve appreciated content/trigger warnings. I read for relaxation. I’m not saying that bad things dont exist just that I dont want to have it be my relaxation experience. It also give people the forewarning that they can scroll on by this piece of entertainment.
Recently I had to write a note for my daughter to be excused from reading or watching the movie The Hate You give for her philosophy class. It was triggering her anixety and panic attacks. We had to have a whole meeting with the principal because the school thought she needed to learn about those experiences. We are a mixed family so they hadnt noticed right off, she looks less Black than her siblings. But I had to pull out family photos and explain that she has come very close to experiencing the storyline of the book except her brother didnt die. Do other kids need to read the book, yes but she doesnt because she understands the lessons to be learned.
Even when suggesting authors or books I give my own warnings. I love Octavia Butler, but Kindred gave me very vivid nightmares. I always say its a great book but be warned its very graphic.
This is a very complex subject. How can one person decide what is okay/safe or upsetting/trauma inducing for another? Are we responsible for what we choose to read or is the author responsible for telling us what we’re getting into?
On one hand, it’s a fascinating debate. One the other, we’re talking about people’s very real feelings and, for a far too many number, past traumas.
I’d rather see diverse fiction that tackles dark subjects than censorship. But some kind of warning system seems appropriate— more akin to movie/TV ratings as others have said.
Just going to put this link out:
https://findahelpline.com/
I googled this morning for an international site since we’re an internet bunch. Hopeful someone may find it helpful.
Wow this was a powerful one. It is ironic that with the Soviet Union, it is called ‘leftist’ , yet in so many ways it mirrors what we call the right ( putting everyone into boxes,conformity eschewing social science as ‘made up’, etc. It goes to show you authoritarianism is much the same, it is similar whatever the motivation is under the surface, nationalism, religion, the power structure is the same, including ignoring or demeaning things that don’t fit the box.
And writing reflects the real world, all the ugly things mentioned happened. It is why some fantasy stories and romance ignore the really dark stuff, because it is a refuge from the real world ( ya know, the story where the main characters are members of a motorcycle gang who are good guys, protect the city, live their women,etc).
I always wondered about the movie Forrest Gump. While it dealt with dark issues with Jenny, the movie itself is a fantasy,and in the movie they kill Jenny off when even the book doesn’t. Why darken a fairy tale?
It can be hard reading dark books, it can trigger things. That said I didn’t like trigger warnings, I feel like that may keep ppl from reading something they might enjoy bc it scared them off. I am not blowing off what can happen go someone who has had a dark past and reads it, I have seen what triggers do in myself and other people.
Put it this way, I have read books where the description of the character growing up in a family like mine, where there was a kind of pervasive cruelty in putting down family Members, making fun of them, that pales against the kind of physical, sexual and emotional abuse in some families, yet when I read it I go into a physical rage, not knowing where to go with myself at times. A trigger wouldn’t help and in some ways it has helped me realize things with myself,as hard as it is. Caveat , this is not denigrating those who want trigger warnings or my experience somehow is as bad as people who have experienced much worse. I think trigger warnings can end up keeping ppl from experiencing things that in the end will cause them to lose out. it is like banning Huck Finn or the Merchant of Venice, rather than use it as a teaching moment, to talk about Racism and Anti semitism and the fundamental humanness of the denigrated ppl in them, rather it is ban it.
Anyway, very powerful essay Ilona, one with a lot of levels.
Thank you for your insight into this.
As for trigger warnings, I’m completely against them. When I was a kid checking out books in the Bookmobile (tiny, tiny, remote town), I had to get my parents’ approval to check out certain books (Alfred Hitchcock as an example) because of my age. I was a book devourer (still am) and had read everything in my age/grade level. Book checkouts were based on what authors wrote (Danielle Steele, Alfred Hitchcock, etc. were Adult writers). There was no censorship (I’m against it) and it was left up to the parent to decide (which it should be). Too many people get too “triggered” by too much in today’s world. You don’t like something, scroll past that part (I have, because I’m not fond of graphic sex scenes), or just don’t buy/borrow that book (ditto); don’t push your views about certain subjects onto others. Just because I don’t like something (ie, 30 Shades of Gray – blush) doesn’t mean I’m going to try to stop someone else from reading it that does.
My great grandparents on my father’s side left Russia for a better, free-er life (at that time it was ruled by Tsar’s). They came to the US for a reason.
Ilona Andrews books are my favorite because violence is never gratuitous and justice always prevails. I appreciate content warnings for other authors (but am fine without them too), but I trust HA to ‘make things right’ so I really don’t even read content warnings for them.
Side note to Ilona:
I appreciated your willingness to take on tough questions in this blog, and even more appreciated when you said others have more expertise than you. Too often these days people with no real expertise in a subject claim robe the experts…so good on you for not going that route! 🥰
I don’t even watch super violent or disturbing TV anymore, because I want escapism and a happy ending. That’s just where I am in life now. Books are easier, because if something is too heavy for me, I’ll just skim it to get the jist and not linger. What actually bothers me the most is cruelty to animals, so after you warned us, (thank you for that) I just scrolled right past that part in Sweep of the Heart. Still don’t know what Unessa did and probably never will. If my husband has watched something I’m considering watching, I have 2 questions: is it torture-y or do any animal die. If the answer is yes to either, hard pass. But your books are never too much, I think the difficult topics are so well handled.
I so hear you on a lot of TV, and honestly I think self-care via happy endings and warm fuzzies is a great thing.
I have fallen down the rabbit hole of the Great British Baking Show because everything about it is so darned wholesome and supportive and caring. It’s so calm and soothing. Plus amazing bakes, mmm.
I really enjoy posts like this. Insight into your thought process and knowing that as authors you always have a reason for dealing with the hard stuff in your work. (I already knew that, but validation is a good thing)
Life is hard. It’s nice to know that evil eventually gets what it deserves, even if only in my favorite fantasy worlds.
At a recent writers’ convention, there was a very spirited set of discussions, on and off-panel, regarding trigger warnings. Even with a book title “The Property of Blood” it was urged that the author use a trigger warning for violence.
As someone who’s lived with PTSD for most their lives and has had the cinematic Vietnam vet flashback, I can’t agree. Caveat Emptor needs to be a much finer, more granular warning, if at all. What triggers one person may be fine for another. And where’s the limit? Do we warn if there are large spiders in the novel? What if there’s non-consensual, non-sexual touching? The honest echo of trauma from being beaten by a bully can be very painful for some readers, but how does one alert the public?
What Ilona said, mostly. But also, if there’s a large amount of specific violence such as anti- abuse that’s not on the title or dust jacket, it’s probably not a big deal to add a warning on the back cover just to give a heads up.
I think I fall somewhere in the middle of this one. I can’t think of a situation where I would skip a book in a beloved series because of trigger or content warnings, but I know of two books I skip or skim in rereads of those series’ because of events that are, uncomfortable at best, for me. One is a KD book, another is a Patricia Briggs Mercy book. It doesn’t make those books bad, just not something I can happily reread in my present state of mind.
Thank you for sharing. I was just 10 min before, listening to another audiobook thinking I hate it when they bring up political, social, or other controversial topics. It drives me nuts and I much prefer lighter books that don’t try and force me to their political views. But I can certainly understand why it would be important as well, based on your response. So thank you for that. 🙂 It makes me feel less frustrated about being half way through a book and being pushed into an unnecessary political commentary.
Triggers may not help in your case , given that even fantasy stories usually involve politics that can mirror our own world , love it or hate it. It is why it is important to read reviews on Amazon or Good Reads, likely someone will share the same view.
What a hard topic to bring up and your approach was very thoughtful and helpful. Thank you! When I do not have a dessert in the house, my other go to is to make a good muesli with the oats, fruit, nuts, then add plain or vanilla yogurt and let it get all soft and cold. Yum 🙂 Cheers!
I just finished rereading all the Kate books along with Iron Covenant…will there be more Hugh books in the future 😊? just curious…
Yes, the Iron Covenant series will continue! 🙂
Hugh will have at least one sequel, but the announcement for its release will come when the authors are finished with the manuscript and the preorders are ready to go. This is the policy that works best to manage both workload and reader expectations 🙂
Cool
Being a rather liberal scandinavian i have considered trigger warnings a bit weird.
It also shows that i am privileged not to suffer from the kind of trauma that would make me need them…
I once read about a book that it didn’t contain explicit sex, profanity or graphic violence, so it could be read by teenagers.
I almost didn’t by it because that description made me think of Disneys polished endings (the little mermaid didn’t really get a HEA).
The book was the first of the riyria revelations by Michael Sullivan and a great read, i have read all his books now, and almost cried over his foreword to the latest book -about his own unexpected HEA.
The reason for the description was that he in the first place wrote them for his young dyslexic daughter 😃
Just shows me my prejudices 😝
Thank you for this! I think dark themes reflect life, and have a place in the book world.
I can’t tell you the joy I felt seeing a Patricia Briggs reference on this blog post (and not only that, but I knew the reference!). It’s like the first time I tried peanut butter with chocolate. Two favorites in the same space, if just for a bite. ❤️
So… Apple cake recipe tomorrow, then? Or if you don’t want to post another (since of course you’ve given us Dina’s delicious version), perhaps something equally delicious? 😉
As always, thank you for taking the time to answer questions, even (especially) on hard topics.
I didn’t read the articles about trigger warnings, but I do appreciate content disclaimers about rape or abuse themes, etc. I prefer having the choice if darker topics will be prevalent or explicit.
And I love what you said about Aunt B. I have 3 sons, so what she did, and the boudas about their boys more generally, resonates with me in a personal way.
IMO, it would be difficult for a book to represent life without bringing in some of the less savory characteristics of people. It gives the good people something to counter. It’s difficult to make a bad guy without evil behavior.
I’m a teacher and, during a workshop around “how to deal with violence”, the animator asked “what do you perceive as a violence done to you ?” Well, the answers ranged from the expected to the most bizarre, like “a car encroaching on the zebracrossing at a stoplight” or “my spouse is unable to be on time”. I guess triggers will have the same impossible to classify variety, and trigger warnings can therefore never be detailed enough to allow everyone to avoid their particular triggers. Content warnings or movie ratings might be more useful.
Dear BDH, House Andrews, and Mod R: Your thoughtfulness, compassion, and ability to handle difficult topics awe me.
You guys are the greatest. Just truly awesome people. Thank you.
Thank you for presenting these writing problems. Today in our local newspaper there were articles about banned books, and those banned books were not about sexual deviation or abuse or vile murder. Their subjects were about gender and racial identity and issues.
I have never, and probably will never be triggered by a Ilona Andrews book because I know that every abuser, murderer etc will get exactly what they deserve. And that nothing too awful will happen to break the main character. And that any dark topics will be navigated thoughtfully, without whitewashing.
Unfortunately I have read books marketed as cute romances that contained awful stuff that left me feeling extremely triggered. I think that the reason that I felt triggered was because the horrible trauma was thrown in as a plot twist to make the reader feel emotional and not dealt with in a meaningful way. Or/and they had the main character bounce back like nothing ever happened.
It’s very nuanced but I think that a big part it is dealing with dark topics well.
I like having a handful of trusted authors that I know will handle everything well, even if it’s a trope I generally loathe or a concept that I’m really not keen on.
But I trust the author to handle it with respect and thoughtfulness, and the end result is always a great read, if not always a comfort one.
It’s not a long list, although House Andrews is on it. It’s funny, one author on it writes nothing but dark stories, yet I love every single one. Several are very prolific authors, and others are just authors that I’ve figured out over time that I will go anywhere they want to take me, because the journey will be worth it.
I love dark stories, so long as there’s a purpose to the darkness. I do put a trigger warning at the start of my books, partly because people who know me are so shocked I’m actually writing what I write (but you’re so *nice*, have you tried a visit to a priest, etc). And partly because what’s in there is rather…in your face. I don’t think the world needs to be plastered in trigger warnings though. In fact, I’m pretty sure we could do with fewer warnings and less soft-footing around issues than we do. That said, I could have used a trope warning on Magic Bites, because the initial vampire description nearly made me give up (not like other vampires, aaaah, what is this?) and then the description of the werewolf coming to get Kate nearly sent me out of my skin (thanks, vivid imagination, thanks alot).
This comic though, is my favorite answer for people who poo poo darkness in stories, or dark works in general. Just so perfect. https://www.akimbocomics.com/?p=924
What are the references to “Maggie” referring to?
Maggie is the new project House Andrews are working on 🙂, it is a new world, not linked with any of the previous series. The first part of it may be serialised for the blog, in the style of the Innkeeper serials.
Here are some of the snippets generously shared with us so far:
https://ilona-andrews.com/blog/maggie-maggie-maggie/ and
https://ilona-andrews.com/blog/bdh-the-best-fandom-ever-and-snippet/ and
https://ilona-andrews.com/blog/busy-week/ and
https://ilona-andrews.com/blog/meow-meow-is-okay/
well done. Real life is real. We don’t want unrelenting grim , but pollyanna cheer is pretty – boring. You do a darn good job. kudos
I once wrote a story just so that I could kill off people in a variety of horrible ways. It started off as a crappy story, but eventually, after a lot of tinkering, the story has actually become something I’m happy with as well. I am aware that if I ever want to do anything with it, I’d have to remove about 80% (and still climbing) of the deaths, but yeah….that’s not gonna ever happen. Also, since my writing is crap and only interesting to myself, there’s no real urge to clean it up for consumption anyway.
I also kind of wonder if writing about someone’s death the way I do, would be less cathartic and more annoying for someone who actually writes for a living.
Over the last couple years, I’ve been listening to a podcast called “Tossed Popcorn” which consists of 2 young women watching and discussing all the movies on the IFC 100 top movies (the slightly less racist recent version) – even though they start out with pretty much zero knowledge of film. I adore it and I’m bummed because they just reached the final movie.
It’s been extremely interesting to me and I highly recommend it, for the way it looks at violence in media, as well as many other issues. The biggest takeaway for me has been how female characters are so often included in stories as “reasons why” men do things. Instead of being full characters in their own right, stories of abused or murdered women are often used as the motivation for men to take the action that is significant in the plot. Often the best thing they can do to help their man is to die off or on screen. Which is crazy, when you think about it. You could replace “wife” or “lover” in these stories with a beloved pet, and get the same result. I think that’s an area where we need to be observant and careful. I now look for this same issue when women and children in books experience violence. Is the “victim” character considered to be a whole person or does the violence just happen so the male character has the opportunity to grow, fight, change or whatever else men are up to these days? Are there other female characters who are whole people? Or is it just men in those roles? They are good questions and I think more of us should ask it when we purchase entertainment in any form. Violence should never only be a plot device. It’s a big deal and needs to be portrayed as such but not just in how it affects men.
It’s interesting how many pieces of media don’t pass even the most basic representation benchmarks, however imperfectly conceived- I’m talking basic like the Bechdel test (at least two women who talk to each other about something other than a man), Sexy Lamp test (If you can take out the female character in a plot and replace her with a sexy lamp for same impact), or the Mako Mori test (at least one prominent female character, with her own character arc that isn’t about supporting the man’s story) etc.
Looking further into representation of other historically discriminated groups, it gets even more discouraging.
Something I’m glad to see has mostly gone away (not a moment too soon) is the prevalence of the “I’m strong *because* I was abused” message. Haaaaated that.
This was an insightful , articulate and interesting post..
Ilona ,thanks very much for sharing a but if the culture of what was the Soviet Union, and likely exists all over terra firm-a..
I went to a stage play that was traveling around the U S, to invited areas a few years back …the authors had take Alice in Wonderland as a base and turned it into a high-school friendly show about Child Trafficking..
It really opened my eyes …people need to know…Authors had often used literature to educate and if you choose to do that I may not enjoy that any more than a creature reanimated from a dead thing…but its poignant..
And its exciting…
Like a fried Green Tomato
“Ill eat it “
Much love to HA, Mod R and the BDH. Good vibes all around and thank you all for being a healthy and compassionate online community.
On the heels of this discussion, and mentions of comfort re-reads, I started to re-read Emerald Blaze and immediately encounter Morton, grieving his adult son’s murder and worrying about his grandchildren’s well being. My daughter didn’t get murdered, thank Goddess, but the rest of it hit me. I love the other aspects of the book and know some humor will lighten it, but I mourned for Felix’s death before and I know it will be harder this time around.
Years ago I took a book to the hospital with me and it turned out a character had suffered a brain injury–and my son was hospitalized in a coma with a severe brain injury. (He survived!) But I had no other books or reading material with me and I slogged through the book anyway so I wouldn’t just sit with my fears and obsess about them.
Interesting as per usual! Thanks!
personally I’m a huge happy ever after person, but the end to evil to get to that I find extremely satisfying. truthfully as long as the good or light wins in a big way I’m normally happy to spend money on reading it.
Trigger warnings are similar to providing consent in any general relationship, though most might be more familiar with romantic relationships. With Trigger warnings you are establishing a respectful communication between yourself and your audience. You will tell them what will generally occur in your books that can allow them to consentually and constructively make informed decisions on how they can protect themselves and their mental health through a form of informed consent. If you have trigger warnings you are allowing your reader to properly inform themselves so they can actively consent to any pain they wish, or desire, to inflict on themselves. If you do not inform the reader of the pain, then it is abuse you are laying at their feet rather than entertainment, depending on the content of the instances which require trigger warnings.
In BDSM, if you are going to put yourself into risky situations you put in a lot of research into the subject, find out the risks and rewards, and then lay a foundation of trust between both parties by installing safeguard measures prior to the agreed upon scene. Establishing limits, hard and soft, coming up with a safeword, and ensuring aftercare after a scene are all essentials to provide a safe space. If someone in a scene breaks that established trust, through pushing past a hard limit or not acting immediately when a safeword is used and is not immediately remedied, then that treads the very fine line into abuse. Trust is instilled prior to the scene through green flag actions, continues on into the scene and into the aftercare. Risky situations such as those which are involved in BDSM is not a good place for grey lines, otherwise safe spaces become dangerous quickly. These types of unsafe actions will cause someone pain and hurt, not in a good way, and becomes full-on abusive rather provide a mental space for enjoyment and entertainment.
Similarly, books are mental connections, there are emotional and psychological components portrayed to the reader by the author and that relationship is a delicate balance of the author protecting their fans’ mental wellbeing while also providing them the content they crave in a way that they expect without spoilers.
With the Kate Daniels series there have been situations where I personally didn’t have any triggers to the material and I enjoyed the books, but other authors have been another matter. Different situations and different interactions. Some authors I’ve read have cliffhangers that just rip your heart out and the wait is atrocious for the next book, or other have a main character going through a horrible, torturous ordeal. I’ve had to gird my loins, so to speak, when I went back to reading the next book in the series, but by then I knew what expect since I was forewarned. I had informed myself of what was ahead of my reading journey and prepared myself ahead of time to protect myself in positive ways. When there are no trigger warnings it’s harder go in mentally prepared, and it is harder to gird my loins.
As an author, ensuring a balance between not giving away spoilers with trigger warnings and protecting your readers wellbeing is a tough battle. If you read enough books that have established Trigger Warnings, you can determine over time what works or don’t work to not spoil the storyline while also keeping the balance of protecting your readers. Beta readers, editors, et. al. might be good sources of figuring out the appropriate trigger warnings before the book is published, since they might have read enough of these types of books between them to know which trigger warnings work or not.
One of the differences between the BDSM scene and the endeavor of reading the book is that you’re discussing your consent, safety, boundaries, triggers, tun ons and icks in person with your partner/partners. This doesn’t happen with authors and readers on a one-on-one basis. Thousands of people will read that book and it’s likely to survive beyond the life span of the author- there is a limit of what warnings can be placed and how many of these elements can be considered.
I think this comment section alone proves that. Someone is very affected by scenes of corporal punishment. In the same book, I might not even register the spanking but be profoundly disturbed by the what-I-perceive as objectifying gang bang scene that they read without hesitation. Both readers picked up a paranormal romance book author known for smut and extreme sexual scenes however, so the responsibility rests somewhere in the middle.
The other difference between BDSM and reading a book is, of course, that we can put down and return a book as soon as it makes us uncomfortable, no strings attached (see what I did there 😉 )
An interesting approach I just saw another site use for content warning – “content warning” at the top in bold, but then the actual warning is fuzzed out with a spoiler type tag you have to click to see the actual content. It seems like a good way to offer warnings while respecting both those who want to go into the story “spoiler” free and those who may find the unexpected flat out statement of the topic being warned about problematic. (In this particular site often the warnings would be flat statements like “animal death” but then the story would be about something like a peaceful passing of a beloved pet, and some people found the tag more emotionally shaking than the story in those cases.)
I personally find trigger warnings extremely helpful, especially when the alternative is suddenly being shoved into something that srnds me into PTSD flashbacks.
I have PTSD from some really awful stuff in childhood, so when I tried to watch “The Girl With the Dragon Tattoo” or was reading “Bird Box”, I slammed into extremely graphic depictions of what happened to me, and it’s like having my brain thrown into a feedback loop + tons of physical symptoms like throwing up and spending a lot of time freezing cold and sobbing.
It doesn’t just wreck my evening or whatnot, it puts me out of commission for several days.
I’m in a place where PTSD doesn’t control my life, too. My symptoms have been managed to the point that some no longer exist with inexpensive medication and compassionate trauma-trained therapists. The only time I run into problems is mis-timing an adrenaline blocker before I go to sleep, as it keeps me in REM sleep and doesn’t let me slide into flashbacks. Sleep flashbacks are the worst, because you can’t do anything about them while they’re going on and your emotional armour is all down, and brains are kinda jerks and turn all this input of adrenaline + anxiety + fear + self-hatred and turns it into lovely nightmares for you. The nightmares don’t have to be re-living the flashback event to be flashback nightmares, it’s just how the body is able to come up with a story to explain all of these feelings.
A few years ago, a flashback nightmare would put me out of commission for the day. Now, I feel like crud for a few hours, but I’m able to get in to work and have a productive day.
The trigger warning articles are talking at cross-purposes to some things, though. They’re mainly focused on them in things assigned for students to read, or for freelance bloggers who don’t have a moderated or supportive community.
For books, I find them totally critical. If it says there is CSA in it, then I can go and look at a different book. If I buy a book and it has graphic CSA in it with no warning, not only am I super upset, but I’m leaving a low rating review stating what the content warnings need to be and I’m probably going to try to get my money back.
I can curate my own reading, movie watching, general media consumption. I watch certain Youtubers because they don’t use racist, sexist, or homophobic slurs (this was a much bigger issie 10 years ago). I have some authors who have promised that they will never, ever have sexual assault on-page, so I know I’ll be fine with mermaids eating people or toxoplasmosis taking over the world. It works for me.
If stuff happens off-screen, it generally doesn’t need as much of a warning imo. And I would never define an entire book by a single trigger warning like the dog death example. There are great sites out there like “doesthedogdie.com” that also help, heh. But unless it’s Old Yeller, the whole book really isn’t about (betraying a child’s love and trust in movies — er, that Rabies is realy bad shit) that, it’s just a side note.
(Oddly enough, I’m a horror movie fan and Cujo is right up there. So a lot of it is not just WHAT you’re writing but WHY.)
I make video games, and we still have this awful idea that if a woman is a main character, then she is so because of sexual assault in her past. Now, in reality, it likely HAS been part of her past with 1 in 4 (or more now) being sexually harassed and assaulted… but it doesn’t pass the sniff test because we don’t make men have a backstory like that if they’re the hero. A lot of time, they’re just the hero.
For books, fiction especially (and romance extra especially), sometimes it’s a place where people friggin’ respect each other and don’t have to be dragged kicking into the “decent being” side of the line because it’s just so exhausting having people tell you all day that you deserve to be dead because of your gender portrayal/who you love/your identity.
Other books explore these thenes, because as you say, they happen in real life. I love spec fic because they’ll take a concept and just run it out as far as it can go.
Trigger warnings don’t automatically make me skip over a book. But they let me go in aware, armed and armoured, and that makes such a huge world of difference.
There are fun comorbidities hanging out with the mostly-relaxed PTSD, but none of them can be triggered like that or make me completely unable to do anything but blanketfort with my cat, cry, feel like crap, and be angry at whoever felt it was necessary to include it without warning, and feel like crap that I’m so angry at them.
I definitely buy more books from authors who include trigger warnings and handle them like adults — not turning them into cutesy lists of positive things in the book, and if it’s LGBTQ++ fiction it had better not include “man on man touching” as a trigger warning. Both really, really insult and denigrate readers who already deal with a pretty rough customer set up in their heads.
After all, PTSD results from TRAUMA. So calling people snowflakes etc because they’ve been exposed to or harmed to the point of it being life-threatening, which comes back and explodes your whole life about 30 years later… it’s not cool? Especially as PTSD is a universal hunan condition (and is experienced by animals as well), with the fine print that if you’re exposed to traumatic events or situations often enough, the chances of everyone developing PTSD becomes 100% eventually.
So, yes. Academia isn’t my field, and maybe things are troubled there. But for book readers and book buyers, I think they’re very important as the more knowledge we have, the happier we are.
Fascinating article!
One of the book sites I subscribe to lets you pick the genres then pick the amount of violence, sex, foul language, religion, etc you will tolerate and then makes suggestions based on your preferences.
I read the newsletter every day to pick up newly found authors and I wish there was an industry standard symbol that a book blurb could
list. I listen to, and occasionally read at least 20 books a month. So I am very picky about what I devote my listening to. Somehow, listening is a more intimate experience than reading, because it is much easier to skip over foul language and sex scenes when reading than when listening.
I think that we tend to stay with favorite authors. We know what to expect in terms of our preferences.